It never made any sense. Penelope Spheeris directed Wayne’s World, a movie released 30 years ago (there’s a nifty new Blu-ray in support of its anniversary) that, kind of unexpectedly, went on to become a massive hit and changed people’s vocabulary. (When I was in high school, if you hadn’t seen Wayne’s World you were not going to understand about half of what came out of anyone’s mouth. Even teachers were doing “…not” jokes.) What never made any sense is why Spheeris didn’t come back to direct the sequel, which came out the following year.
There’s always been rumors of a frosty relationship between Spheeris and star Mike Myers. But in even recent interviews, Spheeris has downplayed that. Even ahead, when I first bring it up she calls it an “evil urban myth.” But when I ask, then, why didn’t she direct the sequel? According to Spheeris, she was told if she didn’t make the changes that Myers wanted, she wouldn’t be approved to direct the sequel. Spheeris, as the actual director of the movie, did not make the changes, and she wasn’t invited back to make the sequel. Wayne’s World was a massive hit and we are still talking about it today. Wayne’s World 2 cost twice as much, made less than half as much money and received a tepid critical response.
Ahead, Spheeris reflects on the lasting legacy of Wayne’s World. She takes us through what happened with the sequel, an event that she says “destroyed” her. And she talks about the absolute joy of working with Chris Farley on Black Sheep, a movie she says Paramount gave to her to make up for Wayne’s World 2.
I think I was the perfect age when Wayne’s World came out…
Thirteen?
I was 17. So you think the perfect age is 13? I will say the language of this movie took over my high school.
I watched the movie the other day just to check the new 4K version that Paramount has done, which is gorgeous. And I brought my foster kid with me and she’s 18 and of course she had never seen it. And you know, what’s weird is, she was laughing even though she didn’t get some of the jokes. Like, Nuprin, you know?
Or the Flowbee?
Yeah, exactly. But, somehow, even now, most of the jokes still work obviously, but people still love the movie.
I went to high school in Kansas City and there would be this field where people would go to and just like to drink beer…
Tailgater.
And I remember distinctly, it was very cold, this movie had just come out, and everyone was listening to “Bohemian Rhapsody” and started doing the head banging thing.
Heavy metal parking lot. And I think that’s why a lot of people watch it is because it’s really kind of nostalgic of a time where life was easier, you know? And it reminds them of what fun they had back then. I think that’s why it might have had such a lasting effect, you know?
We don’t talk about Ed O’Neill’s character enough. He’s so funny.
I know. He’s funnier now than he was back then. It’s freaky.
“When you kill a man in the heat of passion, they call it murder.”
And you know what? He never broke character.
Oh, I believe that.
Like, he would sit in the corner of the donut shop, talking to himself just to stay in character. I feel like I never met the real Ed O’Neill.
“Well, the world’s a twisted place.”
Hey Mike, you’ve got it memorized, man.
I think this movie hits that specific point in time very well. Especially in the Midwest where there’s not much to do and everyone that age at that time is driving around in cars from the 1970s just like Wayne…
You could really relate to it. But you know, that doesn’t explain why the people in Tokyo… Somehow, when it went international, it did very, very well as well. And the guys in the marketing at Paramount told me, Penelope, we’ve done okay over here, we’re going to go wide international and it’s never going to do that. Well, it did.
Also Saturday Night Live wasn’t on internationally.
You know? I hate to admit, I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right. But Paramount was smart because of what they did. Paramount made up this little booklet that they handed out at theaters in other countries that explained the language. Like they defined “schwing” or “No Way! Way!” or whatever.
Or that the word “not” is coming at a time in the sentence that is not normal.
Exactly. Right. You know, when I heard Barack Obama say “no way” in a big, national address, I went, okay, well Wayne’s World is thoroughly ingrained in our culture.
You recreate the Laverne & Shirley intro. How did that happen? Because it actually looks like the opening intro to Laverne & Shirley.
I’m 90 percent sure that the scene was not written into the original script and it was a product of an idea that Bonnie and Terry Turner, the writers, had because evidently they’d been strolling the lot and they stumbled across what used to be the set for Laverne & Shirley. Convinced everybody that it should be a part of the movie because it was like a free set sitting there on Paramount. I don’t mean to be pointing out the downers here, but the kids today don’t know Laverne & Shirley, but they find it funny anyway.
Saying they are friends with The Fonz doesn’t help?
I don’t think so. But I will tell you, I did go out with Henry right when the show was starting. Okay, I won’t go down that road. Henry Winkler. I went out with Henry right when he was just about to become a giant star. And then I cast him in a movie when we were both old. So we laughed about it.
I wouldn’t have picked up on this in high school, but rewatching I noticed how well shot it is for a movie that didn’t have to be. I think it does enhance what this movie is.
Well, thank you. And, of course, a lot of that credit goes to Theo Van de Sande, the cinematographer. But I will say this, it was a challenge dealing with writers and actors who basically had no movie-making experience and had a lot of TV experience. Because, you know, it’s very different worlds.
They’re used to looking at a four-camera system…
Right. And you know, and the wardrobe is always the same. I mean they never changed their wardrobe each show, you know? They had to hit their marks. They had to find their light. They had to get their eye line right. All that technical stuff with making a film, we sort of had to teach them. But the cool thing is I didn’t have to teach them their characters because they knew them so well, you know?
Reading some of the recent interviews you’ve done, you’ve kind of downplayed the friction between you and Mike Myers. Which, I’ll be honest, I’m not sure I believe because it’s not like he’s known now as being this easy guy to work with. So is them knowing their characters so well a problem? If you give suggestions then I’m assuming that creates tension?
I never really challenged his interpretation of the character. And I think it’s kind of an evil, urban myth that people believe that we didn’t get along on the set.
Well, it’s hard not to notice that you didn’t do the sequel. Wayne’s World was a huge blockbuster and everyone loved it and obviously you’re a huge part of that and it makes no sense that you didn’t do the second one, which isn’t as good and did not do as well.
Well, just if you close your eyes, you could imagine how disheartened and disappointed I was. You know, when both the studio and Lorne said to me, Penelope, if you don’t make the changes that Mike wants, he will not approve you for Wayne’s World 2. I had to make that really heavy-duty decision, you know?
Well, in retrospect, do you feel you made the right one? I mean, you’re the one with the classic movie we are still talking about.
Well, yeah. I mean, and also the other thing is I thought they were trying to make a sequel a little too quickly, but you know, I have no control over that.
Sure.
But I just felt, honestly, just on a personal level, kind of, well, I was destroyed, let’s use that word. When I was told I couldn’t continue working with them, but you know what? I’m grateful for that event because boy did it make me tough. I am so strong. Now I can take any rejection you may have to offer. Thank you.
What’s weird is you hear about stories like this quite a bit, but it feels like most of the time when the movie is as big a hit as it is, people settle their differences and just say, look, we had some disagreements on the first one, but the proof is in the pudding. And it’s weird that did not happen.
Well, it is weird, but you know what? Paramount did do that. Mike didn’t. Paramount gave me Black Sheep with Chris Farley. And it was so much fun to me, that one, too. But you know, here’s the freaky part. When I was having that issue with Mike about directing the second Wayne’s World, he didn’t have a history of being difficult. So I was the only one going, “this guy’s kind of a pain in the ass,” you know?
Oh, I see. So people were like, well, these two just don’t get along for whatever reason. Then later there are more stories…
I mean, yeah, I felt like I was the only one that had a problem. But then later, you’re right. You know, karma came down and blah, blah, blah. But I think if you wait long enough, as my mother used to say, it all comes out in the wash.
Have you had any conversation with Mike or Dana since then? Like a real conversation? Or maybe even in passing like at some premiere or something?
Well, we had a 25-year celebration at the Academy and they were all there and there was a huge reception beforehand and they left me alone in the room to kind of shake everybody’s hand and they, all the guys, were upstairs and they didn’t come down. It was me and Lara Flynn Boyle wondering where the hell are these guys, you know? And then, finally, when the photographers were going to take pictures, all the guys came down and got their pictures taken. Then the Academy showed the movie. But as we were walking to the stage, I said to Lorne, “Lorne, I have to tell you something very important.” And you know, Lorne doesn’t like confrontation. And that’s what he was expecting. And he looks frightened, “What, what is it?” And I said, “You made me a very rich woman.” And he said, “Oh, well, that’s a good thing. Isn’t it?”
You mentioned Black Sheep. It was a good experience?
Oh, it was a wonderful experience and working with Chris was awesome. And he was never loaded when we were working. He always asked me if he could leave early and go to AA meetings. I’m like, of course, man, you just go, because I’ll figure out a way to shoot the rest of the day without you, don’t worry. And it was a real, real pleasure working with him. Spade got a little mad at me because I would shoot more closeups on Farley than Spade.
I bet it feels good every time there’s an election when they play that Farley scene with him on stage telling people to vote.
Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s awesome. He was awesome. He was such a sweetheart.
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