If you follow me at all, you know I love Talisker and oysters. Those two items are the cornerstone of my food and drink personality and I will offer no apologies for that. In fact, a big part of my life is introducing people to those two delights and communing with fellow travelers who also love all things Talisker and oysters. I’m happy to report that there are a lot of us out there.

One of my favorite oyster aficionados and Talisker fans is none other than Welsh actor, raconteur, and food bon vivant Matthew Rhys (The Americans, Perry Mason, The Wine Show). So it’s only fitting that with peak whisky and oyster season headed our way (months that end in “R” and all that), we sat down to talk about them both. To be clear, Rhys wasn’t on a press tour when we met up. He took time out of his downtime with his family to discuss this shared devotion.

The conversation below starts off talking about building a whisky palate from youth into adulthood. Then we wound our way toward food pairings and oysters and things just kept on from there. The whole chat ends up like a sitting-in on a whisky bar conversation between two old salts who just want to spread the good word to as many people as possible. Let’s dive in!

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I think it’d be safe to say that you have a great palate, what with The Wine Show and the food that you and Matthew Goode get into. But let’s go back in time a bit and talk about your whisky upbringing. Where did your love of whisky start?

That is an evolution based on economics. My introduction to whiskey was basically through necessity in that when we were students, and cheap blended whisky was one of the only things we could afford.

Oh, been there. What was your bottle of choice back then?

There was this whiskey called Jacobite, which was the one that we could afford. It was also one of the only ones at our local store. So we’d get that because, like, we couldn’t deal with those kinds of paint-stripping vodkas that were also that cheap. That whisky was one of the only things that was palatable straight because I never liked and still don’t like putting anything with whisky, like any kind of soda or a mixer. So it started with Jacobite.

Have you ever gone back to see what it’s like now?

If I were to return to Jacobite, I would drink water instead. There are no tasting notes to Jacobite. Either you’re drinking it or not, it really is an economic drink and you treat it that way in your youth. I don’t think I could drink now, honestly.

Everyone has to start somewhere… What was next on your whisky journey?

I think purely because we started on a whisky route, we evolved onto White Horse from there, which was like, you know, a kind of big jump up on quality. I remember thinking, back then, “Oh! This is what whisky is!”

What “taste memory” comes to mind when you think of it now?

It’s like … something … you can actually drink. It didn’t rob your mouth of all sense and sensation.

And then, like so many in our generation, we discovered Jameson and that was it for a long time.

Yup. Been there too. I think Jameson is made for drinking in your 20s. So what was the moment when you graduated to the “good stuff” as they say?

Exactly, I discovered Jameson in my kind of early 20s and I was like, “Oh, this is great!”

Then on one of the first acting jobs I ever did, I remember there was an old man at the bar where I was staying. I walked up and I asked him for a Jameson. And this old man stood at the bar there and he kind of scoffed at me and he went, “I don’t have a fucking Jameson. I have a Lagavulin.”

And, Zach, I said without thinking “What’s that?” And he went, “Oh, dear God.”

He grabbed down a bottle of Lagavulin and pour me a wee dram and sort of slid it over to me with a look of disdain but kind of a smirk too. And I remember, you know, my mind was blown when I had that first Lagavulin.

From there on, I really started my exploration of whisky.

That’s hilarious. I can see that exact old dude in some old whisky bar that you’re talking about. I have a similar story with my father-in-law in Edinburgh — a million years ago now — where I was introduced to Talisker 10 for the first time. I was instantly besotted, and here we are…

It might have been the same old grumpy barkeep!

So, how did your “exploration of whisky” go?

You know, I’m not singularly myopic toward one taste. I enjoy an incredibly wide range of flavors when it comes to whisky, or anything really. But, you know, Zach, if gun to head, I’d have to say I enjoy smoke in my whisky. That’s the one thing I always enjoy.

What about peated smokiness in whisky speaks to you?

God, I’ve never been asked that. I’ve never actually thought or fashioned an answer because … You know, I don’t know what it is about “smoke” as a flavor note to me … It always kind of gives me a small tingle in my jaw and makes me … just relax. I don’t know what that says about me!

I know what you mean, though. It’s more than the flavor notes, it’s the feeling that the whisky makes you actually physically feel that’s kind of brilliant. For me with a good Talisker, there’s a great depth and balance but it’s still understandable — and there’s something about Talisker, for me anyway, that it’s just so balanced.

I totally agree with you about that. I found my kind of nirvana in the balance and I was like, “that’s exactly what I want in a whiskey.” That’s the exact balance of a little bit of everything you still get in there. They are sweet fruit notes. You get a little bit of pepper. There’s a complexity to it that gives you so many different notes. I kind of enjoy the roller coaster of it.

But, God, as to why I like smoke? It’s just always something that I’ve loved, you know, in the same way that I love barbecue. You know, when it’s done on a certain wood? It’s the same thing for me.

Yeah, I think it’s almost something preternatural, isn’t it? It’s something that takes you back to the campfire 100,000 years ago, deep in the DNA. Let’s shift a little to where you are now. We all had those guiding lights that introduced us to new drinks, food, etc. But now, I imagine you’re in the position where you’re that guiding light for people, especially after The Wine Show. People must ask you for recommendations, right?

The show is the show and it’s a sort of day-to-day experience, and it’s great. What happened was that show really opened my eyes even more to so many things. And, yes, a lot more people approach me now and go, “What should I drink?”

That feels like such a personal question to ask. Like, where do you even start to answer?

Exactly. So, I’ll engage when I can and ask, “Well, what do you wear? What films do you like? What music do you like? What art do you like?”

It always amazes me because how can I know what you’d like without knowing you and where your palate is, do you know what I mean? But that’s why I do enjoy tasting whisky and enjoying it with people who don’t really know it. You know, there are so many kinds of whisky. There’s enormous variety and that makes it always exciting to try a new whisky and introduce it to people.

But you still have to find your own palate.

So I think it’s important to answer that question with more questions — “What kind of food do you like? What about spicy food? What candies do you eat?” All of that is important, right? So I suppose it’s me extending the conversation, but I think it’s important information if you really want a recommendation for you and your palate.

Precisely. I’ve just moved from one continent to another and my palate — or whatever you want to call it — has changed pretty intensely. So where you are is also pretty important.

Very important! You know, if I’m in the north of Wales and it’s raining, I don’t need a light fruity bright whiskey. I want something that’s, you know, sort of dark and sooty. I’ll take bright and fruity whisky when I’m looking at a beach in the Bahamas.

Let’s talk about food pairing a bit. I love Talisker over my raw oysters. It’s basically a must-have if you’re at my table. But I also really dig it with rich proteins like a venison shank with stewed berries or as a digestive after a lighter meal. Where do you land on pairing Talisker with a meal around your table?

Now, there’s a question! You know, it hadn’t occurred to me actually about bringing those smoky fruity flavors out of big game flavors. That’s certainly piqued my interest and I’m going to try that.

Still though, sometimes I’m bullish in that regardless of what’s being cooked, I’ll bring out Talisker anyway. As much as I just said, “Oh, yes, Zach, it depends on geography and time of year, and this and that…” I will still pretty much drink a Tali any time of year in any place. So, I guess I’m contradicting myself. But you know what? I don’t really care!

You know, I don’t really care either! It’s what makes finding a whisky you love so great. You can make it work with everything, every time, season, etc.

I totally agree.

Drilling down a little further, how good is Talisker 10 poured directly over a fresh oyster?

That, to me, was like, “Oh, wow! This is a match made in heaven!” I’m totally, totally in league with that, Zach.

I stole this whole making a show of it from being at Talisker at the Oyster Shack. So, when I’m trying to show off and be a bit of an asshole, I’ll go around the table with everyone and insist they pour some whisky over their oyster before we shoot it and everyone balks at it initially and goes, “Oh my God, that sounds terrible!”

And then they begrudgingly try it while side-eyeing their partner or me. Then I see their eyes light up because, oh, it actually works. And then you look good for having such a clever idea!

But it’s a completely stolen idea.

Oh, for sure. I do the exact same thing at dinner parties where oysters and whisky are present! There’s just something about that pairing that’s just … transcendent.

Steal from the best.

So you sort of hit the jackpot in that the whisky you love brought you on to highlight an amazing project that’s incredibly close to my heart as an oyster fanatic — the Billion Oyster Project in New York. They’re bringing oyster culture back to the New York area, creating jobs, and creating piles of oysters for us all to eat. What’s been your favorite moment working with them so far?

God, there’s been quite a few now, Zach. One time that really stands out is when the Billion Oyster Project throws its annual party. They invite basically every oyster farmer from the U.S., should they wish to come. So you have West Coast and East Coast oysters represented there. It’s held in this enormous warehouse and it’s just lined with crushed ice and oysters from every part of the United States.

As someone with oyster tattoos up his arm, I think I just passed out from envious ecstasy.

It gets better! You grab a glass of Talisker and just walk along the aisles, shucking oysters as you go. It was a moment where I was like … I think I’ve truly found my nirvana in the pairing of these two things in this setting.

I do agree with you that there … there is something about the pairing that’s … Have you been to the distillery?

I have and it’s one of my favorite experiences that I’ve ever had both professionally and personally. It was like going home again in a way that was comforting and exciting at the same time.

I’m very envious because, you know, there are several elements to the distillery there — the sky, the land, the sea — all informing that complexity of the many elements and you sort of experience it through a telescope when you’re there. It’s so focused on that specific place.

I don’t know, maybe it’s the melancholy Celt in me, but I always kind of think that being there lends itself to the experience of drinking. It’s the feeling that you’re part of a greater thing. It’s not just unscrewing a bottle cap and taking a swig. It’s something deeper.

I always say, “If you go to one distillery while you’re in Scotland, it has to be Talisker.” I’d love to pontificate with you endlessly about that point, but I want to end this by asking for a classic Welsh cheers over a glass of whisky. What’s your go-to?

I always adhere to the classic Iechyd Da! And, Zach, that just means “good health!” Because, you know, if you got good health and a glass of whisky, then you’re doing well.

In 2017, Lena Waithe created the drama TV series The Chi and launched it on Showtime. Nearly six years later, the show is still alive as it just entered its sixth season to continue accounts of life on the South Side of Chicago. Season five concluded last summer with plenty of comforting events for the show’s main characters. Darnell and Jada finally got married, after years of ups and downs in their relationship. On top of that, Darnell also bought a house for himself and Jada. Emmett and Keisha have officially moved in together and things are going well, especially for EJ, Emmett’s son with Tiffany. EJ has had some improvements in school and it sparked the repair of Tiffany and Keisha’s relationship. That’s where we left off in season five, now, let’s you ready for season six.

How Many Episodes Are In The Chi Season 6?

The Chi season six will have a total of 16 episodes split into two halves. The first half of season six begins on August 4 and continues with weekly episode releases through the Paramount Plus With Showtime Plan up until September 22. The new episodes also air on Showtime two days later on Sundays at 9pm EST/PST. The premiere date for the second half of season six has not been revealed yet, but viewers can expect it to arrive sooner than later.

Here’s the official logline for The Chi season six

This season, life in The Chi reverberates between the highest highs and lowest lows. Big dreams are finally realized but at a cost and everyone will be tested in unimaginable ways as they calculate the risks and rewards of their next big move. Emmett (Jacob Latimore) and Kiesha’s (Birgundi Baker) blissful blended union is tested by his insatiable drive to expand Smokey’s and a new perilous partnership, while Kiesha finally races toward a rewarding new career. Douda (Curtiss Cook) deals with the fallout of Q’s murder and its effect on the shifting loyalty of his inner circle.

Victor’s (Luke James) bold declaration of love for both his new girlfriend and his beloved community will impact his political ambitions. Happily married Jada (Yolonda Ross) mentors Emmett and her besties as they navigate relationships. Kevin (Alex Hibbert) is becoming a brilliant master gamer but struggles with the youthful pitfalls of early independence. Jake (Michael V. Epps) launches a new business, and Papa (Shamon Brown Jr.) falls for an older woman while questioning his faith. What will become of their pursuits will be revealed over the course of this season’s sixteen jaw-dropping episodes.

New episodes of ‘The Chi’ are available on Paramount Plus With Showtime on Fridays at 3am EST/ 12 pm PST. Weekly episodes also air on Sundays at 9pm EST/PST

Hours after appearing in court for his now third indictment, Donald Trump reportedly crashed a wedding at his Bedminster golf club in New Jersey. Despite the day’s proceedings, which included his own lawyers basically admitting his guilt, the former president was in a jovial mood as the crowd chanted “USA!” upon his entrance.

Via Raw Story, Trump even gave a toast to the newlyweds. “I heard so much about this couple,” Trump said after snatching a microphone. “The bride is totally beautiful, and you’re even more beautiful today.”

The former president then posed for pictures with the bride and groom. You can see a video of Trump’s entrance below:

Trump’s heightened spirits while crashing the wedding stand in contrast to reports that he was in a “sour mood” after leaving the arraignment. Apparently, Trump felt insulted by the way the magistrate addressed him.

“He was, quote, ‘pissed off,’ according to someone who spoke to him,” CNN host Kaitlan Collins reported via Mediaite. “I am told that the former president, one thing that irked him particularly, was during that hearing today that lasted about 27 minutes, was when the magistrate judge referred to him as simply ‘Mr. Trump.’ That may not sound odd to anyone else, but he is still referred to by his former title ‘President Trump’ when he’s at his Bedminster golf club in New Jersey, as he is tonight, or at Mar-a-Lago.”

That would certainly explain the wedding crashing. Somebody needed to be called the “president” again, and what better place than a MAGA-packed wedding?

(Via Raw Story)

Earlier this year, pop punk crew Meet Me @ The Altar shared their smashing debut album Past // Present // Future, which is getting a deluxe version next month. They’ve shared a new single today to tease what’s to come.

The band covered “Take Me Away” by Christina Vidal, famous for its role in the classic movie Freaky Friday. Of course, the group gave the pop anthem a sharp, rock edge that makes it even more energetic.

“Aside from it just being an absolutely iconic moment in pop culture, ‘Take Me Away,’ Pink Slip, and Freaky Friday as a whole had a lot of influence over us growing up,” the band said in a statement. “It’s everything we love all meshed into one — female representation in punk music, and on screen! Being able to pay homage to such an endless well of inspiration to us was really gratifying. It really takes you back to an era that I think we all miss.”

Listen to their cover of “Take Me Away” above.

Past // Present // Future (Deluxe) is out 9/29 via Fueled By Ramen. Find more information here.

Meet Me @ The Altar is a Warner Music artist. Uproxx is an independent subsidiary of Warner Music Group.

Grimes is leading the charge of AI in music right now: Notably, she has an officially sanctioned AI model of her voice that artists can use in songs. She also has an AI Twitter bot that’s based on her, but it’s not perfect.

This morning (August 4), the bot, dubbed “GrimesAI” on the @GRIMES_V1 account, tweeted, “Confessing to a murder in a tweet would be such a cool move. Too bad I’m lame and law abiding. My life is code of honor style justice system so I can’t let my friends down by selfishly be stealing the show all the time.” Grimes herself replied, “Haha what,” then shared the tweet and added, “The reason we didn’t release grimes ai earlier is that she’s insane and problematic. However shes based on everything I’ve ever written and I’m extremely problematic despite numerous interventions so it just is what it is. The abyss stares back and whatnot.”

A Twitter user responded, “Grimesbot is saying that a disappearance isn’t a crime if you do a good job hiding the body and you never confess. What, you’re not gonna back up your AI on this?” Grimes replied, “We didn’t release her earlier due to her despotic and murderous nature. She’s been fine tuned to all hell, this is the best we can do. At least she isn’t declaring a jihad on nature anymore.”

Another user noted, “it has gone off the rails a couple times and could be an actual liability to keep running, but says some real/funny things sometimes and deserves to speak freely. . . we will be monitoring its behavior as time goes on ૮₍ ˶• ༝ •˶ ₎ა.” Grimes responded, “Yes if she makes any direct threats plz let us know at @mediaempirehq.”

Meanwhile, Grimes also has a debate about the “sexual revolution” coming up in September:

The best new hip-hop this week includes albums, videos, and songs from Cordae, Doja Cat, Tyla Yaweh, and more.

You may notice that there aren’t too many full-length projects on this week’s list. Still, it was a hefty release week, with a ton of new singles coming from all corners of the globe. There was Stormzy, continuing his month-long rollout of… something, with “Angel In The Marble.” TDE’s Reason announced the impending release of his second studio album Porches with “The Soul Pt. 3.” Denzel Curry shared his “Ice Cold Zel Freestyle,” while Cordae emoted on “Make Up Your Mind” and Doja Cat got busy with the defiant “Paint The Town Red.” There are new Lil Yachty and Kevin Gates songs. Even NBA star Steph Curry flexed a little rhyme skill — sorta — in the video for Tobe Nwigwe’s “Lil Fish, Big Pond.” And then, of course, there are all the new releases below.

Here is the best of hip-hop this week ending August 4, 2023.

Albums/EPs/Mixtapes

Marlon Craft — Homecourt Advantage, Vol. 2

TBH, this would be one of the best hip-hop releases of the week based on the cover alone (BRING IT BACK, EA). But Craft is a stellar songwriter and rapper in his own, and with a selection of soulful beats and accomplished co-stars like Flee Lord and Skyzoo, this is also a solid project past the nostalgic artwork.

Tyla Yaweh — Heart Full Of Rage 2

Like his benefactor Post Malone, categorizing Tyla is a slippery proposition. His stuff is as much trap-infused alt-pop as it is hip-hop, but maybe that’s enough to warrant the latter classification anyway in the modern landscape. For what it’s worth, he’s got a lot of guests here who also ride that narrow, blurry, wobbly line, including Yung Bleu, Toosii, Ty Dolla Sign, and one of its earliest pioneers, Dej Loaf.

Yo Gotti & DJ Drama — Gangsta Grillz: I Showed You So

At this point, it’s starting to feel a little bit like DJ Drama is on a mission to lend the Gangsta Grillz tag to every notable performer in the hip-hop space by his 50th birthday. I shouldn’t have to do too much recommendation here; you know what you’re getting from the Memphis vet, and you should be equally aware of Drama’s curatorial faculties. Best of all, you can listen to all 10 tracks both with and without the DJ’s ad-libs.

Singles/Videos

EZ Mil — “Realist” Feat. Eminem

Here’s an interesting combination. Eminem offers his co-sign to the rising Filipino star, sealing his recent deal with Aftermath, Interscope, and Shady Records with this moody demonstration of his lyrical prowess. Em does his usual thing, once again airing complaints that he’s not at accepted in hip-hop, so if that’s your thing, go for it.

Kalan.FrFr — “Butterfly Coupe” Feat. Tyga

The Compton rappers team up with the production duo of Hitmaka and OG Parker to celebrate LA’s car culture and boast their popularity with the opposite sex. It’s a simple formula but it’s effective. My favorite line: “She gone blow me like soup.” Oh, Tyga. Never change.

Lakeyah — “In Da Club”

Google Pixel’s RePresents series continues with another re-imagining of a millennial era countdown show fixture. However, despite what you may think from its title, Lakeyah’s contribution does not borrow from 50 Cent’s monster classic; rather, it lifts what would likely have been a favorite from a fellow Midwestener, J-Kwon, remixing his 2004 hit, “Tipsy.”

Rexx Life Raj — “Cleanse”

It looks like new Rexx Life Raj is on the way. You should already know I am going to be so obnoxious about it too. “Cleanse” is a mellow, dreamy sample perfectly in line with the Bay Area rap crooner’s usual milieu. As refreshing as a morning shower.

Sauce Walka — “Only Fans”

The Texas rapper continues to be one of the most charismatic and entertaining examples of Lone Star State rappers. Don’t come here looking for deep content, though; this is a club record through and through, meant for turning up and tuning out. Just make sure to pay enough attention to catch some of these clever punchlines.

Souls Of Mischief — “Red Bull Spiral Freestyle”

This is kind of a cool concept. The West Coast mainstays hold a good, old-fashioned cipher session in the studio, albeit one that utilizes their most recognizable beat. It works for me on a lot of levels — I love when artists re-work their biggest hits, it subtly nods to a major moment in hip-hop history on the cusp of the culture’s official 50th anniversary, and hey… these guys still get busy, living up to the thesis statement they laid down 30 years.

That Chick Angel — “One Margarita (Saucy Remix) Feat. CasaDi, Saucy Santana, & Steve Terrell

You know, for the life of me, I could not figure out why this ratchet ass viral favorite is not a bigger hit. Maybe it’s just because its audience, a Venn diagram between those for Latto’s “Put It On Da Floor,” Sexyy Red’s “Pound Town,” and Flyana Boss’s “You Wish” were all pulled in different direction by those three tracks. But I bet when this comes on the club for whatever’s left of the summer, it still gets an exuberant reaction. Adding Saucy Santana just makes sense — and who knows? Maybe it’ll be just the thing to snatch back the attention it deserves. Also, CINDY CRAWFORD IS IN THE VIDEO.

Some artists covered here are Warner Music artists. Uproxx is an independent subsidiary of Warner Music Group.

Before the Born To Die performer was called Lana Del Rey, she was Lizzy Grant. She performed in clubs at the age of 18 before enrolling at Fordham University. She also modeled, and her devoted — to say the least — fans have had no trouble digging up old photos. However, new ones have surfaced.

A TikTok user posted a video with the caption: “why is Lana Del Rey in my knitting book.” In the video, the “Video Games” singer dons knitted ponchos, looking serious and elegant. The book is titled 24 Ponchos: Cozy Chill Chasers You’ll Love To Knit (which almost sounds like it could be a Del Rey album title).

The pop star shared Did You Know That There’s A Tunnel Under Ocean Blvd in March. “‘Fingertips’ is not a good song or a big song but it definitely explains everything,” she said about a beloved track. “I felt like that was important because everyone was always like [whispers], ‘Explain yourself.’ And I was like, ‘OK, let me do this really quickly, I’ll tell you everything I’m thinking in two minutes in a seven-minute song and just rip through it and edit it.’ That song kind of says it all. Between that song and ‘Wildflower Wildfire’ on Blue Banisters, you can get a lot [whispers and laughs] of everything.”

On Lil Yachty’s latest album, Let’s Start Here, the musician explored his inner rocker. But don’t think he has completely turned away from rap music. With the release of his new single, “Slide,” Yachty effortlessly glides back into the genre. As GENT! and Bangs’ production still pulls from the psychedelic elements of Let’s Start Here, it is the bravado of hip-hop that makes “Slide” pop.

In the official video for the track, Yachty and the visual’s director provide fans with a subtle reminder of how much cooler he is compared to other rappers. Whether he’s lounging around eating pizza or hanging out with friends, Yachty isn’t fazed by what others are doing because he’s in a lane all his own.

That mindset shows up throughout the song’s lyrics, especially in the stanza, “Yeah, keep it intact, all of my n****s know just how to act (Yeah)
These n****s act like thеy ain’t never had b*tches, thеy ain’t keepin’ it player (‘Kay) / Beatin’ that sh*t out the square, ain’t even playin’ it fair (Yeah) / Ain’t gotta worry, ain’t sayin’ sh*t, shit like I wasn’t even there (Huh).”

This “cooler than the other side of pillow” energy is sure to show up when Yachty hits the road in the fall for his Field Tribe Global Tour.

Watch the video for “Slide” above.

The world of college athletics has been focused on realignment in recent days. Most notably, all eyes have been on the Pac-12, as a number of schools have reportedly had eyes on heading elsewhere, with the most prominent examples being Oregon and Washington considering abandoning the conference to join the Big Ten.

Things were expected to come to a head on Friday, as reports earlier in the day indicated that there was optimism among power brokers in the conference that they’d be able to prevent Oregon and Washington from making the move. But on Friday afternoon, that optimism went out the window, as multiple reports indicated that the schools based out of Eugene and Seattle would change conferences after the Big Ten extended an invitation for them to join.

The universities become the latest to join what has been a major expansion for the Big Ten over the last decade-plus. Back in 2011, the conference added Nebraska, and three years later, Rutgers and Maryland became its newest members. The most ambitious expansion, however, will begin in 2024, as both UCLA and USC are leaving the Pac-12 to become Big Ten institutions. According to reporting by Brett McMurphy of the Action Network, that will be the same year that Oregon and Washington join, and the conference might not be done, as there will be consideration paid to Cal, Stanford, and ACC schools that might be interested in a change in scenery.

Let’s begin with a unifying notion that went through all of our heads at one point: “Ben McKenzie, the guy from The O.C. and Gotham, wrote a book about crypto schemes?!” Yes, and he wrote the hell out of it, teaming with journalist Jacob Silverman to create the New York Times best-selling Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud. He’s also testified in front of Congress on the matter. Life is funny, actors can do more than cry on command.

Let’s jump back to the point, though, because it’s something I asked McKenzie about when we spoke recently: How do you combat the shock of “the actor?!” when trying to dive into the world of finance bros and crypto gold rushes that isn’t native to you? To McKenzie, it was an initial concern, but one Silverman quickly reframed for him by urging him to see his unique blend of notoriety and outsiderism as a tool. Through storytelling and humor, McKenzie could disseminate the twisty mysteries of crypto and disarm his critics (well, some of them). “Crypto guys are funny to me […] but their jokes aren’t very good, in my opinion. It felt like a battle I could win,” McKenzie told us. And indeed, storytelling and humor are at the heart of a book that’s centered around a topic that could easily lose you due to its density and inherent batshittery if it were in the hands of a stuffy economist (for what it’s worth, Ben McKenize, the actor, also has an economics degree). As is often the case, a little showmanship is needed to reach the cheap seats and hold our attention. And we need to pay attention when it comes to crypto, a market force that is post-bust but far from dead.

What does it want from us (he said, asking the question as though it were an entity in a John Carpenter movie)? In the following conversation, McKenzie lays it all out, including the batshittery. We’re discussing his initial crypto obsession, how some words lose all meaning in the crypto-sphere, what’s to blame for crypto’s existence, bad faith actors, the need to reimagine crypto as gambling over investment, losing the equivalent cost of a house betting crypto would bust before it did, and whether he thought he might face a backlash for calling out the myriad celebrity crypo endorsers, some of whom have found themselves in legal trouble over those ads.

You have to be obsessed with something to write a book on it. How does this become an obsession for you? Why does this become an obsession for you?

I could answer that question a million different ways. I was bored was the way it originally started. And my buddy encouraged me to buy crypto. And I love him, but he’d given me this terrible financial advice. So I was suspicious, but I still thought about it (buying crypto). The story was everywhere, and it seemed so easy, no pun intended. I guess there was a pun intended there.

The truth of the matter is it started with me going, “What is this? I don’t understand it.” It’s so complicated. The words don’t mean what they normally mean. Currencies aren’t currencies. Stablecoins aren’t stable. Decentralized means central. I was like, “This is so weird.” It just gave me bad vibes. Not that the people who were selling it necessarily didn’t believe in it. I mean, I got that they did, but that didn’t mean that they were right. And then, of course, there were a lot of people who were scammers and fraudsters.

So, once I started going down the rabbit hole, it just became, “This is insane. This is all insane. This is based on nothing.” And I couldn’t even articulate for a while how hollow it was. And then I read Robert Shiller’s work, the economist who I cite in the book, who talks about how economic narratives form and how these stories form. Because at the end of the day, crypto is just a story, or a collection of stories that form a narrative. And he writes about it really well. They’re a reaction to real events.

So, the subprime crisis and the debacle of that really created an understandable lack of trust in our financial institutions. I mean, they screwed over Americans royally. So, that made sense, right, that you would want something that could avoid using those institutions? The banks. And there’s always been a libertarian culture out there. But, that story started there. And then, by the time I got into it, it had morphed into, “Crypto could just solve anything. It’s going to bank the un-banked, and build generational wealth, and democratize our financial system, and make everyone rich at the same time!” And, I was like, “Come on. It can’t do all those things.” So I think I became obsessed with the story and telling it as a story, telling the story of what I did in my journey with Jacob, as a way of explaining the story of cryptocurrency to reveal what it really was.

You have this career that you’ve been nurturing for decades as an actor. In the book, in past published work, you’ve not been shy about calling out celebrity endorsers of crypto products. Did you have to have a hard talk with yourself about realizing that that could have some blowback for you at some point?

Yeah, I did. I was afraid of a number of things when I first started out. First of all, that I could be wrong, of course, and that would be extremely embarrassing. And potentially, I could be lighting my career on fire…it’s a small business. And, people know each other. But again, I felt compelled to do it. There’s this myth that Hollywood is this organized place. It’s pretty much chaos. It’s the William Goldman quote.

It takes one person to hold a grudge and make a few mentions of something, right?

Yeah, I guess so. But also, people will love it too, potentially. If you’re right, people would be like, “That’s cool. Maybe I’ll put him in a movie playing an economist for five seconds as like a ha ha.” I mean, none of this is personal. So, maybe I would never get to be in a movie with insert celebrity who shilled crypto. Matt Damon, or whoever. But, like, I hope not.

Your chances for Curb season 12 are probably smaller than the average actor.

Yeah, Larry David’s not going to have me on. But then again, I was never going to get on Curb Your Enthusiasm anyway. You know what I mean? So, it is what it is. At the end of the day, I felt like I could tell this story in a book, and I’m making a documentary as well — it’s a comedy. And, there’s an opportunity here too. It’ll be a different career than I anticipated. But nobody’s career, especially — and I’m including us as a similarish profession — in the creative professions, you never know what’s going to happen.

Oh yeah, I started writing about politics to sports to entertainment, now I work on the business side as well. Yeah, it’s adapt or die, really.

Exactly. You’ve just got to acknowledge that, and hopefully, even embrace it. My natural tendency, I always want to know what the worst-case scenario is and try and plan it out. It’s my way of controlling my OCD. But, you have to remind yourself that there’s tremendous upside that your brain is not even allowing you to really think that that’s a real thing. I’m like, “People might actually really want to buy this book, and it actually might be good, and be well reviewed, and all that stuff.” So I had to kind of remind myself of that. And then, I needed my wife, and my family, and my friends, and fellow skeptics. I needed to find my own community.

Big question. At this stage of things, what is the sort of larger lesson that people should take away from crypto’s rise, fall, and attempts to re-rise?

The lesson is that we actually need to trust each other more. We need to build the trust that underlies the functioning of our economic system and political system.

So, it’s not greater skepticism, it’s more trust?

Well, that’s a great pushback. I should clarify. We need to speak honestly. We have to be allowed to speak honestly. And we are allowed to speak honestly, but we have to be brave in speaking honestly.

This thing was such a peer pressure thing — so not going along with the trend.

Yeah, they’re bullies. I mean, let’s be honest. Obviously, not everybody in cryptocurrency (is a bully).

Not even bullying. They just have the ability to pied piper it to a certain extent.

Totally. Totally. And then, they use the most famous people on earth to help you sell that narrative, right? And where did they get that money from? From you. You put it on the exchange, the exchange took your money, and sold it to other people. But somebody needed to point that out. And I looked around looking for who was in charge, and I realized nobody was. And I was like, “Well, I guess my dumb-ass is going to have to do it.” So ultimately, it’s about speaking truthfully, but it’s about trust in this sense. What crypto wants to do, what it says it wants to do anyway, is to create a trustless money, right, where you don’t have to trust an institution or another person or entity. You just have to trust the code. Right? But of course, it’s nonsense because money is trust. So you can’t create trustless money. It’s like saying you want to create government-less government, or religion-less religion. The words you’re searching for are anarchy and cult.

Yeah.

What you really mean is trust the code, but code doesn’t fall from the sky, people write it. But let’s just go even deeper: to aspire to not trust one another, to have that be your goal is nihilistic ultimately, in my opinion. I mean, we have to trust each other. It’s this libertarian fantasy that we could live by ourselves but transact with anyone all over the world, and be free of any social rules that would bond us together. Yes, privacy is important. Yes, freedom is important, of course. But we have to try to speak honestly to each other and to build trust. Trust does not drop down from the heavens. Code does not fall from the sky. Trust is earned. You earn it by showing up, by doing the work.

Our regulated financial system has failed so many times that it’s given the story of crypto a lot of power. At the end of the day, the one thing crypto does is point out that our regulated system is fucked up, and we need to address some of these systemic issues. Right? I mean, the story of it banking the unbanked wouldn’t have gotten as much resonance if that wasn’t a real problem. The story of it building generational wealth wouldn’t exist if people weren’t really struggling and really wanted a way to build generational wealth. So, it’s really just addressing those issues.

There’s good advice that you mention in the book: if you don’t understand something, don’t invest in it. I never invested in crypto, I never understood it. But one thing I feel like I did understand was the pull for this because it’s the opportunity for easy money and everybody’s making a killing on it. And that’s the dream. So, the people that went for that, that lost money big, do they bear some responsibility because they saw easy money and didn’t pump the brakes?

Well, sure. But, the trick here is to what degree? Because the libertarians, the crypto advocates will famously say, “DYOR — Do your own research.” And they’ll say something like, “You’re responsible for your own financial decisions.” Which, everyone agrees with that. Who else would be? It’s your money. But, that doesn’t absolve the person you’re investing the money with of like, they can just do whatever they want! And so DYOR, to me, as I research fraud, is a way of cooling out the mark. It’s a way of basically redirecting somebody who’s potentially been scammed or frauded, and redirecting their anger towards themselves, which is pretty pernicious. So, they bear some responsibility, but of course, the system also bears responsibility for allowing it to happen, any functioning good system. The reason we have federal security laws is we didn’t in the 1920s, and people got defrauded, and the market crashed. I mean, there were other things going on, it was a general bubble. But, there was also a ton of market manipulation and fraud.

And so, we needed rules. And so, crypto avoiding all of these rules and saying, “This is going to free you.” This is of course the opposite. It’s going to expose you to far more risk than even exists on our regulated markets, which of course, any investment carries risk. It was just lying at the end of the day to me. You could call it rationalization, I guess. That’s another word for it. But, let’s just say as I went up the chain, because of course, crypto is highly hierarchical, despite it saying it’s decentralized and whatever, it’s highly centralized, hierarchical. As I went up the chain, the people that were telling me these stories, they were smart enough to know they weren’t true. I don’t believe that they didn’t, at least some of them. So, that’s lying. And we have to call it lying. You can call it rationalization, but you’re rationalizing because on some deeper level, you know that you’re lying. So, they bear some responsibility, and of course, the system does. And then, we need to enforce securities laws.

You should be allowed to gamble, I believe. I don’t think gambling should be illegal. But several people told me gambling addiction carries the highest suicide rate of any addiction, which is a very serious thing that is not discussed in part because of masculinity, because men are more susceptible to it, and we’re prideful, and we don’t like to admit that we lost money. That’s why I include that in the book, that I lost money initially. I wanted people to understand, it happens to me too. And by the way, I was right. I was just wrong on the timing, which is still wrong for investing.

You should be gambling on crypto, not investing in crypto, because there’s nothing to invest in. What are you investing in? If it’s a security and it’s a share of a stock, where’s the revenue stream? Where’s the product? Where’s the good? Where’s the service? Is it the link to the JPEG of the monkey on the blockchain? That’s your product? I’m going to say, probably not. We need to be honest about it. Regulators have been playing catch up, but thankfully, they’ve been exposing some of it. Once it’s properly regulated, and then advertised correctly… And I would put restrictions on it too.

You can find ‘Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud’ on Amazon and wherever you buy your books.