Emerald Fennell isn’t having any of that talk about any kind of pressure to deliver with her second film, Saltburn. She says the standards she sets for herself are so far and beyond what anyone could come up with anyway. Though, not a lot of filmmakers had the success she did with her first movie, Promising Young Woman. It’s hard to judge based on box office since it was a 2020 release, but it does seem like a movie everyone has now seen. And then there are the accolades, which include an Oscar nomination for Best Picture and an Oscar win for Best Original Screenplay. It might not get to her standards, but there is certainly anticipation for a second film.
With Saltburn, set in 2006, Fennell introduces us to Oliver Quick (Barry Keoghan, who is fantastic). At first, Oliver seems nice enough (this becomes an interesting point of contention in the interview ahead), but does tell some untruths to win the friendship and affection of his Oxford classmate Felix Catton (Jacob Elordi). Over break Felix invites Oliver to spend time at his parents’ estate, Saltburn, where Oliver’s deceptions, let’s say, start to escalate. Though, there’s one pretty amazing scene where Keoghan’s Oliver Quick dances fully naked throughout Saltburn and looks like he’s having the time of his life.
But is Oliver Quick nice at first? Or is he just vulnerable, which makes him seem nice? Is Emerald Fennell nice? Or does she want to be the villain? Let’s find out.
I remember being at the premiere of Promising Young Woman at Sundance in 2020. When you introduced the movie I remember thinking, “Well she seems nice,” not knowing yet what that movie would be or the the kind of movies you’d be unleashing onto the world.
Yeah, but isn’t it really an important part of the process that I seem really nice?
But I’m under the impression you are nice. I’ve never heard a bad word about you.
Well, I spend a great deal of my time making people think that I’m nice.
I see.
I mean, look, no, it’s interesting for you to say because I think that’s so much about everything that I’m interested in, is how slippery all that is.
Slippery is a good word.
And how much of what we do is presenting ourselves in a certain way. I mean, look, to be honest, I am quite nice, which is actually very boring. I do try to be a reasonably decent person. But everything that I like to do is to sort of … the weaponized charm of the captains is not something I’m unfamiliar with.
I mean, to your point, Oliver Quick seems nice too, at first.
Does he?
Kind of.
But does he? Does he seem nice?
Well…
Or does he seem vulnerable?
Well, that’s interesting because I think vulnerability can create a sense that they are nice.
Sure. But he’s not nice.
He’s not nice. No, he’s not. I read him wrong. I was off base on him. He is not nice.
But what I mean is that isn’t it all a question of framing? Because, actually, the first moment we meet him, we know he’s a liar.
Sure, but…
We know he’s probably not nice from that opening moment of the movie. And then, actually, what we are shown is not him, but other people’s reaction to him. He himself is always a kind of an enigmatic presence-
But we do feel for him though, at first.
Totally, we feel for him. Absolutely.
Because we’ve all been in those positions where we want to be liked. And maybe you say something that’s not 100 percent true to get someone to like you.
Oh, a thousand percent. I suppose the thing is that it’s always really interesting, it’s always about why we give people a sort of moral judgment. But, actually, it’s interestingly not necessarily based on fact. But that’s why I hope, it’s why it’s so fun making the movie is all the things – it’s like we think of Felix as being really nice, such a nice guy, when actually in every scene he does something really shitty. From genetic or spoiled or capricious … or racist. But we leave thinking he’s nice. So yeah, I mean, that’s the fun of it, really.
I don’t know how much you think about this, but you’re in a really interesting position because very few people have the success that you had with your first movie. And now Saltburn is only your second feature film but there are expectations.
No, because I also have the highest possible standards, making it excruciatingly difficult. I myself am only interested in making the best possible thing. So, the external expectation is nothing compared to the excruciating nightmare-ish burning kind of self-motivation that I have. So, I think really early on, the response from Promising Young Woman was so incredible. It was so out of all context. It was just incredible that really quite early on, I sort of had to just say, “I can only just make the things I want to make.” And if people like them, that’s incredible. And if they don’t, there’s nothing I can do about that. I can only really try and make something that I believe is really, really good and that I really like. Otherwise, I think you just drive yourself completely mad.
You’ve mentioned seeing Barry Keoghan in The Killing of a Sacred Deer and knowing you wanted to work with him. He’s really terrific in this. He reminds me of a young Dustin Hoffman in this.
Interesting. I think he’s a kind of Robert Mitchum to me.
Oh, that’s interesting.
He’s got that kind of charisma, which is unmatched. It’s unmatched. He is an unprecedented person. It’s not just of our time, but I think of any time. I’ve never really seen anyone like Barry. I like to go in really, really, really close – love the closest closeups. And I’ve never … Barry is exactly what I always wanted Oliver to be, which was somebody that we can try and get inside and we will never, ever know, the closer you get.
Well, he seems fearless. I don’t think it’s giving anything away to say he does a very interesting dance at one point in this movie. I don’t think a lot of actors would do that.
I think that’s the thing about this movie – and the whole cast, honestly, and the whole crew – it’s we were all dedicated. We all wanted to make the thing that provokes a physical response as much as an emotional or intellectual one. This movie is a physical experience, I think. And Barry is one of the greatest physical actors. All of them are. That’s why I loved working with him so much, we are just, both of us, determined to jump off a cliff, even if it means we end up smashed on the rocks on the bottom. Or even if that is, in fact, the most interesting outcome: to be smashed up on the rocks. That’s what we want. And so, working with him is so thrilling because we’re always pushing each other to be more interesting, more difficult, more complicated, more excruciating. All of that stuff.
Saltburn is set in 2006. So no iPhones or real social media. If it were set today someone would put on Instagram that this Oliver Quick guy was acting weird.
But think about catfishing today. Think about how slippery all of our identities are now.
Oh yeah, that’s true.
Because I actually thought so much about this film. I’ve been thinking about Saltburn for seven or eight years now, but it makes total sense to me that it was written during COVID, where there was never a time that we were more voyeuristic. And more obsessively looking at other people’s lives and more incapable of touching. We were forbidden from touching each other. Fluid was terrifying. We were bleaching our groceries. And so, this is just honestly a film about looking at people and not being able to touch them. But at the same time, everyone is engaged profoundly in what Oliver is engaged in now.
No, that kind of just hit me. I was in New York City during COVID and it was obviously pretty bad. And I think that’s why this movie hit me the way it did. And I didn’t realize that until you just said that, but that makes perfect sense.
Yeah, sort of longing to touch and what happens when you can’t touch the thing you want to touch, what that does to you. It makes you completely insane.
And you know what? Despite what you were trying to convince me, I do think you’re nice.
Oh, good. No, I am nice, unfortunately. It’s really boring. But I am nice. I wish I was a villain! I’m not.
‘Saltburn’ opens in select theaters this weekend. You can contact Mike Ryan directly on Twitter.