Category: News

To say that we’re in a golden age of whisk(e)y feels like the understatement of the century — at least in food and drink discourse anyway. Shelves around the world are flush with bottles from Kentucky, Texas, Japan, New York, Ireland, and beyond, with so many choices that it can all seem dizzying. And that’s just the bottles found in stores and online. Once you get into investing in rare and limited whisk(e)ys, things really get wild.

How wild? People have been known to drop six-figure sums on single bottles for collections valued well into the millions.

While most of us probably don’t have the spare cash lying around to pay, say, $200,000 for a bottle of rare Japanese or Scotch whisky, that doesn’t necessarily preclude us from breaking into the spirits investing game altogether. At least not according to one of the leading voices in that world, Nate Gana, who founded the massively popular Single Malt Daily shingle.

Gana came from a finance background, so becoming a whisky investor, critic, and expert doesn’t feel like the hugest leap. He’s a much sought-after tasting leader, a judge at the iconic San Francisco World Spirits Competition, and, now, a viral TikTok whiskey star — Gana’s trip to Barrell Craft Spirits this year racked up almost 13 million views on the platform. He’s also putting together a team to revive the iconic Whisky Live tasting convention in New York. All of which makes his Instagram and TikTok accounts must-follows for even the most passive whisk(e)y fan, but especially for a budding collector.

This week, Gana was kind enough to jump on a call with us and break down how you can get into whiskey investing/collecting. We also talked about what he actually drinks, the nature of whiskey influencing, and celebrity liquor brands.

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• The Best Bourbon Whiskeys To Drink Neat, From $50 On Up

You have an amazing collection of rare, old, and new whiskies. Can you tell me what was the first bottle of whisk(e)y that was your “Ah-ha!” moment where you realized that whiskey was going to be a central part of your life?

The first bottle that was my “Ah-ha” moment had to be Macallan 18. That was one of those iconic bottles back in the day where — if you wound up with that — you were like, “Oh my God! I don’t even know how I got to be in the presence of this bottle!” So it has to be the Macallan 18 for sure.

Now that you’ve had this whole experience in years of tasting whiskeys and being in the industry, what do you think now?

I think that I am extremely fortunate to be in the position that I’m in because I get to taste through literally the best things in the world on a daily basis. And not only do I get to taste them, but I get to get paid to taste the best whiskey, which arguably could be constituted as the best job in the world period. When it comes to that Macallan, I still keep a bottle ready on the shelf.

With Single Malt Daily, you’re highlighting the rarer whiskeys and the older whiskeys — sometimes old in the sense of what’s in the bottle and sometimes when the bottle was released. What led you down the road to focus mostly on the rarer and older juice?

The reason I got into this was because of the investment side of things. I had a bottle of a Macallan that was at my house from a duty-free pick up that I paid $100 for back in about 2005. Anyway, someone came to my house and offered me $1,200 for the bottle. And I thought to myself, ‘Okay … That’s a great deal for me because I’m making 1,100 percent. But what kind of deal is this guy getting on it and what’s it really worth?’ Then the same thing happened again three months later with a bottle of Glenfiddich. I’d bought it for around $500 and someone offered me $3,000 for it. Then I really thought, ‘Okay, there’s got to be something that I’m missing here.’

So I started to look at the investment angle of whiskey and realized that there was a massive opportunity for alternative commodities investment, which is how I got started in this. I started getting access to some of the best whiskeys in the world by posting about them which led to being able to go and tour and do what I do now, which is really going and seeing some of the greatest things that have ever been made.

But back then in the whiskey industry, they weren’t necessarily making their whiskey to make it as an investment. Today, however, I would say that a lot of brands are making their whiskey for investment purposes. Only ten years ago they were just making it to make great whiskey. And that’s what makes the older stuff more coveted, arguably, because everybody was drinking it.

What do you think makes a whiskey worth investing in as a professional who deals with these whiskeys day in, day out?

Right now, I think that scotch hasn’t passed its time, but it has definitely slowed in comparison to bourbon, which has been booming lately.

Can you break that down a bit?

So essentially the Japanese distillers were the ones who started the trend of “collectible” whiskey. The value of some of these bottles … When the Yamazaki 50 was released in 2005, it cost $4,800. It’s now $350,000 on average. Part of that is that the quality was simply second to none. And that led to the whisky boom with Karuizawa, Nikka, Suntory. There were so many brands with such amazing quality out of Japan. And then Scotland kind of had to up their game a little bit and say, “We started this, really. We can’t be dethroned.” Then came the investments on a much larger scale, especially with names like Macallan, The Balvenie, and Bowmore and part of that is because they have more whisky than the Japanese did essentially. And they’ve been doing it for a lot longer. So, when you see the 1926 Macallan going for 1.8 million U.S. dollars, you start to wonder, “where does this end? Is there an end in sight in this?”

Then you look at bourbon and you see some of these prices — you know, $2,500 for a bottle of Pappy — and they are nowhere near the price point of some of these Scotch whiskies and Japanese whiskies. Right now, I feel like there’s a lot of bottles in the bourbon world that are extremely coveted. The quality of the liquid is outstanding from a craftsman’s perspective and they simply were not charging for it.

There was a great story of LeNell’s Red Hook Rye. LeNell grabbed four barrels distilled in 1984 and essentially each single barrel release was $159.99 at the store for a bottle. LeNell’s Red Hook Rye now is going for roughly a minimum of $45,000 for a single bottle with a $159 price tag still on the bottle!

If you are lucky enough to collect the set of four different barrels releases, you’re looking at least $200,000 for the four because they aren’t available as a collection, meaning you have to track them down individually. Yet that still pales in comparison to one bottle of let’s say Macallan or Suntory. So I feel like there’s so much room to grow in bourbon, which is why I’ve turned my attention there.

So let’s say you’re just getting into all of this and maybe you know allocations exist or maybe you don’t. Maybe you know there’s a place out there where you can get rare bottles, maybe you don’t. What would you recommend someone do if they were looking at a whiskey shelf to find a standout bottle that has real value down the road?

Right now there are so many good producers. We’re in a really great age because bourbon is just really starting to hit its stride. In order to get ahead of everybody else, you’ve got to make quality because people know the bullshit, and people can see through the pretty labels.

I think they’ve got to that point where they’re saying, “Okay, what’s in this bottle that’s going to do it for me?” One thing that I love about the bourbon industry is that a lot of what I see is generally over 50 percent ABV, whereas it’s very difficult to find something in Scotch whisky that’s over 50 percent ABV unless it’s a limited edition. That just speaks to the pure caliber of what people are making right now.

So you have to just start trying things and find your own home with what makes you feel like this is the best whiskey I’ve ever had. Luckily, it’s really easy to do that right now because a lot of what’s on the shelves right now is of a higher standard. That high standard is kind of the norm right now. That’s what I love about where we are with bourbon specifically. Bourbon producers are hitting their stride and we’re finding out exactly who can make the best and how often can they produce the best.

Right. An old-school label isn’t enough anymore when what’s in the bottle is so damn good whether it’s a heritage brand or not.

I think it’s going to be a very difficult thing for a bourbon brand to rely on its name moving forward based on the quality that’s out there. The coveted whiskeys — let’s say the Pappy van Winkles, the Willett’s, Michter’s — were always making this supreme quality bourbon and still are today. They’re never going to just coast on their name. They’ve never stopped making incredibly well-polished whiskey. They just had a leg up by being first to market. But now you’ve got all these companies making this great quality juice.

So if you can’t find yourself a Pappy or a Willett or a Michter’s, well don’t fear! There are another 500 companies that are making something truly fantastic.

Shifting slightly, when you look at something like Irish whiskey, it has become the comeback of the century. It’s growing faster than anything else as an import into the U.S. In your professional opinion, why do you think Irish whiskey is capturing people’s imaginations right now?

It’s got a much different flavor profile than any other whiskey in the market, period. Without question, the triple distillation of Irish whiskey is allowing for a much more mellow palate. I hate using the term “smooth” because I feel like a whiskey wasn’t meant to be “smooth.” Call me crazy when I say this, but if you’re drinking something at or above 50 percent ABV and it’s smooth, then I think the whiskey company hasn’t gotten to what they want.

What term feels more right to you?

I think that the term should be, maybe, “mellow on the palate.” And if you can have a mellow palate at 50 percent ABV, I think the company has done its job because you can have a very harsh whiskey with a 40 percent ABV. But you can have a more mellow whiskey at cask strength and that just depends on the quality, right? So with Irish whiskey, you’ve got triple distillation which is taking out any of those harsh notes that you would typically find in other whiskeys, whether it’s scotch, Japanese, bourbon, Taiwanese. That’s what I think is coming through and appealing to everybody’s palate right now.

That Redbreast Cask Strength is just ridiculous.

Everything Redbreast does is outstanding. That’s the thing. I’ve spoken with people and asked, “have you had the Redbreast 21?” And more often than not they’ll say, “Yes. And I prefer the 12.” That’s wild! But that’s how good the whiskey coming out of Ireland is right now. It’s amazing.

The other one that I’m a big fan of is Teeling. They are very, very explicit with what kind and what style they’re making. Plus, they’re experimental. There are bottles from them you’re not going to see again that are excellent. For instance, their 28-year-old has to be one of the best whiskeys I’ve had. I hosted a tasting of, I’m not kidding you, a Hibiki 17, an Old Rip van Winkle 10, Macallan 30, and the Teeling 28 and the Teeling won.

So let’s say you got a little bit of money and you want to invest in whiskey legitimately. But maybe you’re not a connoisseur. What’s your advice to someone who’s looking to get into the game? What guidance would you give them? Or do you think there’s room to start from scratch at this point in high-end whiskey investing?

You know what, I think there’s very little room to get in the business and figure it out right now. There’s at such a high price point for entry now. You have to start by reading a lot of the articles about what has gone on in the industry to see what’s boomed and what’s booming. That makes it feel almost too late to start learning from the bottom up, in my honest opinion. I don’t mean that in a negative way. I mean that in a positive way. There are so many resources out there now where you could educate yourself. You can simply Google “best whiskeys to invest in” and you’ll find tons of information. It’s just really that easy right now to get in.

The hard part is the cash you need to deploy to get into the game. Then on the flip side, some people have the cash and don’t know where to invest it, right?

How so?

For instance, finding a Yamazaki 18 going for less than a thousand dollars in New York City is probably the harder thing to find than having the money itself on hand. It’s become one of those things where it’s so bloody coveted that you might have a thousand dollars to invest on that bottle but no one knows where to find it. That’s probably the most difficult thing right now. If you read the articles and you see, “okay, yeah, that’s a great investment, no question.” But the question is, where do actually find that bottle? Building that network takes a lot of time and it’s not the easiest thing to do and that’s where things get really tricky.

So, what’s a tip for a pure beginner to start building that network?

One of them I can tell you is going into your local liquor store or your big corporate chain liquor store and becoming a gold or platinum member (or whatever their top tier is) for their system. Once you’re in the top tier, you’ll be automatically entered into the lotteries to win all the coveted bottles at retail price. That’s probably the best thing I can offer as a tip to anybody.

Next, enter every lottery you possibly can. If you win, you’ll get amazing bottles at retail prices that will never be happening ever again. You might wind up with the Pappy 23. Then you could arguably be winning by 2000 percent instantly. It’s really just trying to get your leg up when you can and where you can.

Beyond that, it’s all about reading as much as you possibly can because every day there’s a new article coming out about what to buy and what’s coming out that’s cool and limited. Everything is going up right now. It doesn’t matter which category. If it’s limited, it’s going up. So there’s the upside there too.

The question is when does that stop?

That’s the million-dollar question. Something available to both the investor and the consumer are barrel picks. They seem to be on a lot of people’s minds at the moment when they’re talking about both investing, but also having a special experience with a brand they love. What’s your take on barrel picks as an investment? Or is it something where it’s just like, you’re going to have 250 bottles that you’re not going to be able to sell?

You hit it on the head in the latter statement. I am very, very wary of cask purchasing for the investment side of things. There are so many bourbon distilleries right now that are doing cask programs. What makes this one more coveted than the other 5,000 out there?

These programs are just crazy right now. I can see that not ending well for the investor with the way it’s been going just based on how many people are buying a cask the second they get offered it. What if you can’t sell your 200 bottles, but you spent the ten, 20 grand on doing everything, then what? And, of course, that’s going to happen. Plus, how many single cask bottlings of different whiskeys can you possibly do that the distillery’s not already doing for themselves and their own brand?

So let’s end this by talking a bit about the online aspect of all of this. You’ve built Single Malt Daily into pretty much the highwater mark of whiskey influencing today. That has opened a lot of doors for you to enjoy some of the most unique drams on the planet but also talk with some of the most interesting people who make and love whiskey.

Yeah, absolutely. It’s super cool because every year, pre-pandemic, I would do a tasting at the Nike campus in Oregon for around 800 employees. The last one we did was honoring NFL legends, and I got to do a tasting with Jerry Rice, Bo Jackson, and Brian Urlacher. I get to do tastings for really, really cool people and some celebrities. And that’s an amazing thing.

Plus, I get to do really cool live interviews where we get to highlight really cool stories in whiskey. For instance, I’m doing an interview with Brother’s Bond Bourbon with Paul Wesley and Ian Somerhalder from Vampire Diaries. If you know them, you know that they’re incredibly popular online and globally, really. Their Brother’s Bond Bourbon might actually be one of the biggest whiskey brands if you look at the following it has on social media alone. And for me, that’s because they’re such good people who truly care about what they’re putting out there in the world from their image to acting to, now, they’re whiskey. So for me to be able to get an interview with those two amazing guys is probably the coolest thing that’s happened so far.

That’s coming up soon, right?

Yeah! That’s actually happening on August 31st at 11 am Pacific on my Instagram. This is going to be one of those things where I get to interview them and talk about their love for bourbon. And look, a lot of celebrities produce — let’s just say — not as great quality liquors as the big brands. Of course, there are expectations to that like, say, Ryan Reynolds. Aviation Gin is legit.

It really is.

It is and Brother’s Bond falls into that category in that it’s actually a really good bourbon. And that’s one thing I really look for in an interview like this is that I can go in there with confidence knowing that I’m tasting through something that’s actually genuinely awesome. And even with the bounty we have, that’s not always the case. I feel like there’s a lot of people out there making a lot of things. I won’t name any other brands. But when you get to have a brand that has a heart behind it and it has the quality behind it, that really is so nice and refreshing in the celebrity world and in the whiskey world.

Netflix’s You pulled off some marvelous twists in its second season, and by the end, Penn Badgley’s Stalker Joe felt his entire foundation ripped out from underneath him. He’s now stuck with Love Quinn, who’s arguably even more sociopathic than Joe himself, and they’re expecting a child. Joe found himself feeling trapped by the situation, even as he noticed that he might want to start stalking his neighbor, and one can expect the batsh*t crazy vibe to keep coming at amplified rates. With that said, the show released a teaser that expressed Joe’s hesitant approach to parenthood, namely because he’s fearful that the kid will be, uh, also a homicidal maniac.

Given the fact that the baby’s been born to two serial murders, yup, I’d say that’s a justified fear. Poor kid doesn’t stand a chance, nor does society. Surprisingly, the kiddo isn’t named Forty (after Love’s late brother) but something less dramatic: Henry. This appears to be a purposeful blanding-out move, as Joe suggested with a voiceover.

“People these days will name their kids anything to get attention,” Joe declared. “And despite your mother’s background and your Glamma’s [yes, that’s right] determination to refer to you as Forty reincarnated, I know better. A boy is not what we expected, and I would be lying if I said the thought of a mini-me was purely exciting and not without challenges. Let’s just say, I’m hoping you’ll do as I say, not as I do.”

Good luck with that, Joe. You (which now includes Scott Speedman in the cast) returns on October 15, a very spooky and potentially devilish date.

The View won’t be the same without Meghan McCain (or her hair).

The conservative voice of the daytime talk show left the program in August, calling it a “really wild ride [for] the past four years of my life” and adding that the experience was “honestly the best of times and the worst of times in all ways.” Instead of hiring a full-time replacement for McCain right away, The View will pull a Jeopardy! and have a “rotating cast” of co-hosts.

The confirmed temporary hosts are former Utah congresswoman Mia Love, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former HP CEO Carly Fiorina, former Fox & Friends co-host Gretchen Carlson, and cable news fixtures S.E. Cupp, Eboni K. Williams, Alyssa Farah, Mary Katherine Ham, and Cameran Eubanks. Mike Richards must have had his invitation revoked. The Hollywood Reporter has more:

In addition, all of The View‘s former co-hosts have been invited to appear on “Flashback Fridays” throughout the season. Former panelist Star Jones will be the first former co-host to make an appearance on Sept. 10. It is not yet clear whether Barbara Walters, who created the show, will appear during the season.

It takes nine conservatives to replace the takes of one Meghan McCain. Her power. The View will have a very different energy next season, which begins on September 7.

(Via The Hollywood Reporter)

Kim Kardashian showed up to all three of Kanye West’s Donda listening parties, but she played an especially large role in the recent Chicago event, where she took the stage in a wedding dress. Now that Donda is actually out, Kardashian shared a video for “Come To Life,” which features footage of her on-stage wedding dress moment, as well as of West on fire.

This doesn’t seem to be an official video for the song, as it only appears on Kardashian’s page. Rather, it appears to be something she made or had somebody make, to capture a moment of which she’s fond.

She also took to her Instagram Story to share what seem to be some of her favorite Donda moments, which include the title track, “Come To Life,” “Lord I Need You,” “Hurricane,” and “Ok Ok Pt. 2.”

As for Kardashian and West, there have been reports in recent days that the two are apparently working on repairing their relationship. This comes after a June Keeping Up With The Kardashians reunion special in which she said of the cause behind their relationship issues, “I honestly don’t think I would even say it here on TV, but it was not one specific thing that happened on either part. I think it was just a general difference of opinions on a few things that led to this decision.”

Watch the “Come To Life” video above.

Soulja Boy is still pretty miffed about being left off of Donda, judging from the stream of enraged tweets he’s been posting for the last hour.

On Sunday, Soulja originally expressed his discontent in a series of tweets telling Kanye to essentially lose his number after discovering that the verse he recorded for the song “Remote Control” went unused. This morning, after a tweet that seemed like he was letting it all go, Soulja instead launched into another tirade calling Kanye “weird,” encouraging the producer to stop hitting his phone, instructing Kanye’s estranged wife Kim to call him, and recalling a similar situation while recording “Robocop” for 808s & Heartbreak.

“Learn to be done,” read the first tweet. “Not mad, not bothered, just done. Protect your energy at all costs.” However, it seemed he had trouble following his own advice, posting a video of him recording the unused “Remote Control” verse and apparently getting mad all over again.

Soulja blamed Kanye’s falling out with both Kim and Jay-Z on Kanye’s bipolar diagnosis, ridiculed Kanye’s failed presidential campaign, wondered why Kanye would even invite him to record if he didn’t plan on using the recording, which Soulja considered a waste of his time, and even threatened to fight the mercurial producer, all while calling him “lame” and insisting “He needs help seriously.” You can see the full thread below.

Over the past few weeks, FX has ramped up its promotion of Ryan Murphy’s upcoming series, Impeachment: American Crime Story, which will tackle the infamous Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. However, that process has resulted in viewers getting a first look at Sarah Paulson‘s portrayal of Lewinsky confidante/backstabber Linda Tripp, which has sparked considerable backlash over the actress’s use of a “fat suit,” for lack of a better term.

In a new interview with the Los Angeles Times, Paulson responded to the criticism, and it appears that the actress agrees that it wasn’t the best creative choice. According to Paulson, she originally planned to naturally gain weight for the role, but later, opted to use the fat suit. While she ultimately blames the responsibility of actors to embody their roles with every tool at their disposal, she wouldn’t make the same choice again. Via IndieWire:

Paulson added that she “regrets” not thinking more about the harm of wearing a fat suit prior to making the decision. “I also know it’s a privileged place to be sitting and thinking about it and reflecting on it, having already gotten to do it, and having had an opportunity that someone else didn’t have,” the actress told the Times. “You can only learn what you learn when you learn it. Should I have known? Abso-f*cking-lutely. But I do now. And I wouldn’t make the same choice going forward.”

Paulson also argues that the big question is “Was she supposed to say no [to the part]?” Considering the end-product ended up barely looking like Linda Tripp anyway… maybe? Probably? We get that she’s Ryan Murphy’s muse, but we’re pretty sure there were tons of people involved in Bill Clinton’s impeachment who Paulson could’ve played.

Impeachment: American Crime Story premieres November 2 on FX.

(Via Los Angeles Times)

Lady Gaga has announced a Chromatica remix album coming September 3. Titled Dawn Of Chromatica, the BloodPop-executive produced remix album features reworkings by Arca, Dorian Electra, Charli XCX, A.G. Cook, Mura Masa, and lots more.

Released in May 2020, Gaga’s sixth studio album marked something of a return to the dance floor for its creator, who launched her career via electropop bangers like “Poker Face” and “Bad Romance.” Talking to Apple Music’s Zane Lowe around the time of Chromatica‘s release, Gaga said, “I think that the beginning of the album really symbolizes, for me, what I would call the beginning of my journey to healing, and what I would hope would be an inspiration for people that are in need of healing through happiness, through dance.”

Find the Dawn Of Chromatica art and tracklist below.

1. “Alice” (Lsdxoxo Remix)
2. “Stupid Love” (Coucou Chloe Remix)
3. “Rain on Me” (With Ariana Grande) (Arca Remix)
4. “Free Woman” (Rina Sawayama & Clarence Clarity Remix)
5. “Fun Tonight” (Pabllo Vittar Remix)
6. “911” (Charli XCX & A. G. Cook Remix)
7. “Plastic Doll” (Ashnikko Remix)
8. “Sour Candy” (with Blackpink) (Shygirl & Mura Masa Remix)
9. “Enigma” (Doss Remix)
10. “Replay” (Dorian Electra Remix)
11. “Sine From Above” (with Elton John) (Chester Lockhart, Mood Killer & Lil Texas Remix)
12. “1000 Doves” (Planningtorock Remix)
13. “Babylon” (Bree Runway & Jimmy Edgar Remix)
14. “Babylon” (Haus Labs Version)

Dawn Of Chromatica is out 9/3 via Interscope Records. Pre-order it here.

Following the passing of legendary actor Ed Asner, his Cobra Kai co-stars William Zabka and Ralph Macchio both paid their respects and gratitude for Asner gracing the show with his presence. The late actor played Sid Weinberg, the emotionally abusive step-father to Zabka’s Johnny Lawrence, and recently popped up in Season 3.

“Devastated to hear this news,” Zabka wrote on Twitter. “What a legend. What a beautiful human and special friend. I learned so much from him. My love and deepest condolences to the Asner family #RIP Dear Ed”

Macchio also offered his condolences. “So saddened by this news,” the Karate Kid star wrote. “A legend and icon in the acting world. Endless respect for his body of work on so many levels. Ed had graced the Cobra Kai series and am grateful to have had a moment or two to meet and connect with him. An absolute privilege. #RIPEdAsner”

In addition to Zabka and Macchio’s tributes, Cobra Kai creators Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz, and Hayden Schlossberg issued the following statement to Deadline:

“What performer could more perfectly embody the love/hate nature of playing Johnny Lawrence’s father than Ed Asner? When we dreamed up the character, there was no discussion – it was only Ed.”

Asner was clearly a beloved presence on set. Just a few months ago, Zabka had stopped by Marc Maron’s WTF podcast where he shared an anecdote about how the very first words Asner said to him was “Oh go f*ck yourself” after being asked if he needed anything.

“He did it in character,” Zabka told Maron, “and he rattled me, and he got me in this place, and I’m like, ‘Sh*t! Did Ed Asner really say that to me? But no, he was doing this device, which he does all the time off-camera.”

(Via William Zabka on Twitter, Ralph Macchio on Twitter, Deadline)

Billie Eilish has become one of music’s biggest stars in recent years, and like many ambitious people, Eilish has multiple interests. For example, if the situation is ever right, she’s like to give acting a show.

In a new interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Eilish was asked about her potential acting ambitions, and she responded, “If I fall in love with something, I would love to act in it. It would only have to be the right thing because I’m not an actor and I’m not… It’s not my calling, but I’ve always loved acting. I loved acting as a kid. I would have to really, really feel a connection and have a moment of just, I don’t know, love for it.”

If Eilish got into acting, she wouldn’t be the first person in her family to do so. Finneas has a solid film and TV resume, which includes multi-episode roles in Modern Family, Glee, and Aquarius, as well as an appearance in the movie Bad Teacher. On top of that, he and his mother Maggie Baird starred in Life Inside Out together. Speaking of Baird, she is an actor as well who has had roles in As The World Turns, Seinfeld, Bones, The X-Files, and a number of other recognizable shows, movies, and video games.

Check out the full Eilish interview here.

For a minute, put yourself in the shoes of Destin Daniel Cretton. For the most part, his films have been critical hits and usually, like Short Term 12 and Just Mercy, revolve around the emotional bonds between human beings. None of his films come close to being anything that would ever be described as “action.” When he tells the story of how he even came to be the director of a Marvel movie, he admits he wasn’t sure this was the right time in his career to take on such a big movie like Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (which is arriving in theaters on September 3). But after what sounds like some informal meetings with Marvel turned into very serious formal meetings where this might actually happen, he decided, alright, it’s time to do this.

Then a couple things happened. Cretton’s wife, Nikki, told him they were going to have their second child only two months into production. And then a month after that, the pandemic hit. So, now, here’s this huge movie that Cretton debated about doing under normal circumstances, and he’s making it under some of the most unusual circumstances in the history of cinema. Anyway, yes, for our whole interview, Cretton had this kind of smile on his face. It’s the kind of smile that you only really get to have after something like this particular situational feat is accomplished.

In Shang-Chi, the title character (Simu Liu) most cope with his past and one again face his father, Wenwu (Tony Leung), who happens to be the leader of an international crime syndicate called the Ten Rings and, also, he is the owner of the mystical Ten Rings, which gives him unbelievable powers. It’s also important to note that Wenwu is a new character, not from the comics. (In the comics Shang-Chi’s father is, well, complicated and bad and too much to get into right here.) Wenwu, at times, has also gone by the name The Mandarin, among many other names. Yes, it’s all potentially confusing.

What’s interesting here is what Cretton is doing is trying to take the parts of The Mandarin from the comics that are interesting, then disposing of the parts that are dated or stereotypes or all around awful. And, no, the movie does not forget how Iron Man 3 dealt with The Mandarin, and Cretton explains why he decided to salvage certain aspects. Cretton also talked to us about an almost forgotten 2014 Marvel One-Shot, in which Trevor (Ben Kingsley) from Iron Man 3 learns that The Mandarin may not be made up after all.

This is my joke: as someone who has seen your past movies, there’s something just a little different going on in this one. At least, there are a lot more fights.

Could you find any similarities between them?

Your movies deal with the bonds of friendship and family, which I think run through a lot of your movies and certainly this one. Even Glass Castle, that is a fraught family.

Right. Yeah. It’s funny, because, I mean, obviously I’ve never done anything like this before. But what I found throughout the process was how familiar it felt. Yes, it was daunting to step into making the decision to do this movie. But, throughout the process, it really didn’t feel like a creative process that I was not used to. It was actually very fun.

You say “step in the decision.” What does that mean? Do you pitch Marvel? Do they come to you? Because I could see that going either way.

I mean, there’s a point, sometimes, it starts with a conversation. In this case, it started with a conversation. Where I went in to just kind of chat with Jonathan Schwartz, the producer of this movie, and find out what they’re up to. But I wasn’t thinking that I would even get to a pitching point. But there’s a point when that conversation turned into two and then three. And then he asked me to come in and pitch what I would do for the movie, if I wanted to direct it.

Why did you not think it would get to a pitching point?

I wasn’t sure I wanted to get to a pitching point. I honestly didn’t think at this point in my career that I wanted to go and do a giant movie like this. But my conversations with Jonathan and the team at Marvel was actually very inspiring and really fun. And so, it kind of got me excited to go in and actually try to get the job. So that’s when I put together the pitch of what I would actually do in the movie. And I mean, I didn’t think I would land it, but I did. But I was very happy that I did.

So you weren’t sure you wanted to make a giant movie. Then you go for it, then the pandemic happens, and I know you had your own scare. This seems like an extraordinarily difficult situation.

Yeah. It was like so many things were piled onto my plate that it just became laughable. And my wife, Nikki, we would just sit and laugh sometimes at the number of things that we were juggling. After I actually got the job for Marvel and knew when we were going to go shoot, my wife started laughing when she told me, “Surprise! We’re pregnant! And we’re going to be having a baby two months into production.” And that child, our second child, was born one month before the pandemic hit. And we all found ourselves together in a house in Sydney for three months when production shut down. And it was like everyone in the world were just shifting their lives to push through it. And it actually, coming out the other side of this movie, I felt in a lot of very aligned with the emotional ride of Shang-Chi and his journey of learning to redefine the hard parts of his life: The pain of his life, the difficulties. And redefine them and refocus them and turn them into his super powers. And that, I think, is something we’re all kind of striving to do right now.

I remember interviewing Jon Favreau for Iron Man 2 and him saying The Mandarin wouldn’t work at that point and, “The Mandarin would probably need to be interpreted with a large degree of creative license because it will not look like what’s in the comics.” Then Iron Man 3 turned a version of that character upside down. In Shang-Chi, it feels like you took parts of that character, like the Ten Rings, and forged it into something that can work.

Yes. I mean, that was the number one challenge of this creative process, was redefining and giving a clear context to the questions that were posed in previous movies around the Ten Rings and this idea of “The Mandarin.” As soon as we decided to go out to an actor like Tony Leung, I think that was the tone setter for what we wanted to do. And the caliber of the character that we needed to create, in order to get somebody like Tony, needed to be a character that was breaking stereotypes, not contributing to them. Showing people a version of this character that they have heard of and surprising them, in a way, with how human they are – how much they might actually relate to this villain of our movie. And I’m so excited for people to see what Tony brought to this character.

I’m curious how much the One-Shot All Hail the King fed into Shang-Chi. In that, “we can really play off this and do some interesting stuff,” just based on that short they set up seven years ago?

We definitely. … I mean, I know Drew [Pearce] and I love that One Shot that he wrote and directed. And it was a sharp film and that’s part of the MCU. And so, we want to be true to that story as well. And including that storyline in this movie I think was not only just really fun, I think it’s essential to hear that character admit how ridiculous that whole situation was.

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