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I never realized how dumb our cities are until I saw what a smart one looks like.


With the population growing and most of it happening in cities, these Canadian journalists wanted to take a closer look at whether our sprawling modern villages are up to the task of housing more humans.

Over half of the world lives in urban areas.


That includes over 80% of people in the United States and 81% of folks in Canada, where this report was produced. Therein lies the problem.

pollution, culture, traffic

A lot of modern cities are being described as obesogenic environments.

Dr. Karen Lee can tell you what that means:

city design, infrastructure, obesogenic

Lee says our living environment has shaped public health for the worse:

“The ways in which we’ve been designing our cities have been making us sick. … We’ve inadvertently designed physical activity out of our lives.”

A healthy diet and regular physical activity are some of the most important things we can do for our health as individuals, but flawed city design has restricted opportunities for people to make those choices, which has contributed greatly to what are essentially public health epidemics — ones that require public health solutions.

Most cities have been designed for cars, not for people.

Look out your window and see for yourself. Brent Toderian, former chief city planner for Vancouver, says it’s a big problem:

mental health, economy, money work

Toderian says city design that makes it easier for people to get around instead of cars is one way to make physical activity a more natural part of our lives. And a lot of major cities are beginning to look to Latin America for ideas about how to achieve that.

In the 1990s, Medellín, Colombia, was one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

The constant threat of drug-related violence made it a place people wanted to escape.

constitution, hardiness, gridlock

But today, Medellín stands as a model of creative urban design.

The city was desperate for change. And they may not have had the resources of the world’s richest city, but with a few smart infrastructure investments, like outdoor escalators, suspended gondolas, and public gathering spaces, Medellín has been transformed into a place where people are proud to live.

escalator, Medellu00edn, population

gondola, fitness, well being

Medellín’s escalators cost only $6 million to build — “peanuts in the scheme of modern infrastructure projects.”

Architect Carlos Escobar sees these developments as much more than just infrastructure upgrades:

“The new transportation system in Medellín … is not only a physical solution. It is not only transportation. It is also a social instrument that involves the community, that integrates the community in all the city.”

Medellín is more connected than it’s ever been, which makes it easier for workers to get to their jobs, and it brings more action to the local economy, strengthens the community, AND encourages people to be physically active.

If you’d rather spend more time in your community than in your car, give this post a share and help spark more people’s imaginations. The solutions are out there. And they’re not as costly or far-fetched as a lot of us might think.

This was a fantastic news report by CBC News (great job, Canada!). Here’s just a snippet, but check out the whole video if you wanna nerd out a little more like I did:

This article originally appeared on 03.10.15

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The very real story of how one woman prevented a national tragedy by doing her job

Dr. Frances Oldham Kelsey had only been with the Food and Drug Administration for about a month when she was tasked with reviewing a drug named thalidomide for distribution in America.

Marketed as a sedative for pregnant women, thalidomide was already available in Canada, Germany, and several African countries.


It could have been a very simple approval. But for Kelsey, something didn’t sit right. There were no tests showing thalidomide was safe for human use, particularly during pregnancy.

thalidomide, wonder drug, public health

When Chemie Grünenthal released thalidomide in West Germany years earlier, they called it a “wonder drug” for pregnant women. They promised it would treat anxiety, insomnia, tension, and morning sickness and help pregnant women sleep.

What they didn’t advertise were its side effects.

Because it crosses the placental barrier between fetus and mother, thalidomide causes devastating — often fatal — physical defects. During the five years it was on the market, an estimated 10,000 babies globally were born with thalidomide-caused defects. Only about 60% lived past their first birthday.

In 1961, the health effects of thalidomide weren’t well-known. Only a few studies in the U.K. and Germany were starting to connect the dots between babies born with physical defects and the medication their mothers had taken while pregnant.

At the outset, that wasn’t what concerned Kelsey. She’d looked at the testimonials in the submission and found them “too glowing for the support in the way of clinical back up.” She pressed the American manufacturer, Cincinnati’s William S. Merrell Company, to share research on how their drug affected human patients. They refused. Instead, they complained to her superiors for holding up the approval. Still, she refused to back down.

drugs, medication, medicine

A sample pack of thalidomide sent to doctors in the U.K. While more than 10,000 babies worldwide were born with thalidomide-related birth defects, FDA historian John Swann credits Dr. Kelsey with limiting the number of American babies affected to just 17.

Over the next year, the manufacturer would resubmit its application to sell thalidomide six times. Each time, Kelsey asked for more research. Each time, they refused.

By 1961, thousands of mothers were giving birth to babies with shocking and heartbreaking birth defects. Taking thalidomide early in their pregnancy was the one thing connecting them. The drug was quickly pulled from shelves, vanishing mostly by 1962.

Through dogged persistence, Kelsey and her team had prevented a national tragedy.

government, FDA, bureaucracy, community

In 1962, President John F. Kennedy honored Kelsey with the Federal Civilian Service Medal. He thanked her for her exceptional judgment and for preventing a major tragedy of birth deformities in the United States:

“I know that we are all most indebted to Dr. Kelsey. The relationship and the hopes that all of us have for our children, I think, indicate to Dr. Kelsey, I am sure, how important her work is and those who labor with her to protect our families. So, Doctor, I know you know how much the country appreciates what you have done.”

But, she wasn’t done yet. Later that year, the FDA approved new, tougher regulations for companies seeking drug approval, inspired in large part by Kelsey’s work on thalidomide.

Reached via email, FDA historian John Swann said this about Kelsey’s legacy: “[Her] actions also made abundantly clear to the nation the important public health role that drug regulation and FDA itself play in public health. The revelation of the global experience with that drug and America’s close call indeed provided impetus to secure passage of a comprehensive drug regulation bill that had been more or less floundering during the time FDA was considering the application.”

Kelsey continued to work for the FDA until 2005. She died in 2015, aged 101, just days after receiving the Order of Canada for her work on thalidomide.

Bureaucratic approval work is rarely thrilling and not often celebrated. That’s a shame because it’s so critical.

People like Kelsey, who place public health and safety above all else — including their career — deserve every ounce of our collective respect and admiration.

This story originally appeared on 05.20.16

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High school marching band direct themselves after they’re left without a director

Any parent of a marching band kid will tell you that they’re a different breed of kids. From July through November, these kids put in hours of work daily in order to perfect their routines for halftime and competitions. They are often at school before the sun comes up and well after it goes down.

Marching band kids become family so when Pocahontas High School in West Virginia found itself without a band teacher, they decided they would figure out a way to keep their band together. The band originally had 38 members but when the band teacher left over the summer the kids were given a choice to find a new elective to replace band or find a way to make it work.

According to The Real WV, many of the kids did pick other electives but 10 kids decided to take their principal up on the offer to stick it out.


“It wasn’t an option to quit,” Hailey Fitzgerald tells The Real WV. “I’ve been in the band for seven years. I love it! It’s too important for too many reasons.”

The principal has been searching for a new band teacher since the first one left for a new school district but just couldn’t find anyone. His search went well into August before coming up with alternative plans to offer the band.

“I said that we’d had zero applicants, and since we didn’t have an instructor, we’d have to get them into other classes,” Joseph Riley explains to the Washington Post.

According to the outlet, Riley told the kids if they chose to stay in the band, they would get full credit so the kids got to work finding two teachers, Casey Griffith and Jennifer Nail-Cook to be their advisors. The kids then had to decide on who would lead the Warriors band since there was no official band instructor so they nominated Hailey, who’s twin is also in band. There was a pretty big hurdle the kids had to overcome, though. Yep, bigger than not having a band director.

Most of the kids left in band played drums but in order to be a proper band, they needed to bring more than the beat. They needed woodwinds, horns, drums and more but instead of being discouraged, they continued to push forward. The band now has a clarinet, alto saxophone, tenor saxophone, a trumpet and three drummers.

“Several members switched instruments and some even learned brand new ones,” Hailey tells The Real WV. “We aren’t even big enough to fill a closet, but we have instruments and uniforms and we are a band.”

Unless you’re in the band, it may be surprising to learn that you have to actually play certain songs during certain points in the game. You can’t just play what you want whenever you feel like it, so the kids had to not only learn new instruments but adjust the music. They recently played their first home football game where they were met with supportive signs from their classmates.

“We were nervous about how it would go, but people really stood up for us,” trumpet player Kaidence Cutlip tells the Washington Post. “Everyone made signs for us in support of the band, and that gave us a lot of confidence. We all felt like, ‘We’ve got this.’”

The band plans to play at all home games and go to ratings, which every band in West Virginia is required to attend to be rated on performance. While the band continues to take notes from The Little Engine That Could, the school is still looking for a band director.

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Do you know your pet’s love language? A new survey reveals which one is the most popular.

We know our pets love us. Eternally. Enthusiastically. Unconditionally. But how do they know we love us?

Since renowned marriage counselor Gary Chapman, Ph.D. first coined the term in 2007, people have used the five love languages to better understand the different ways they give and receive love—either through physical touch, gifts, words of affirmation, quality time, or acts of service.

While love languages were first created as a tool for romantic relationships, they have since taken on a life of their own, extending to singles, children…and now, animals, apparently.


2,000 cat and dog owners were surveyed on behalf of Nulo pet food to find their furry friends preferred love language—and let’s just say it has nothing to do with giving gifts. Sorry, folks who love to dish out treats and toys.

That isn’t to say the way to a pet’s heart isn’t through their stomach. Pet parents reported being largely committed to offering high-quality meals (53%), with a focus on health and nutrition (47%), and incorporating diet variety (32%).

Quality time also ranked quite high at 27%. The next most popular pet love language is quality time which includes letting their four-legged friend sleep in their bed and bringing their pet along on trips. Although this last part has to be mostly coming from dog owners, right? Cause I know my cats would consider going on road trips with me as capital punishment.

dogs, love languages

But, without question, the reigning love language was physical touch. A whopping 83% of pet owners felt that petting their fur babies was the most effective way to express love. Another 62% endorsed hugging, and 55% were fans of kissing.

On an intuitive level, it makes sense. After all, animals use tactile communication with each other, why wouldn’t they do so with their human friends? And what pet owner among us couldn’t say that the message is very clear when they sweetly rub up against your leg or nuzzle up next to you?

What probably isn’t surprising is that 95% of the pet owners surveyed reported believing that their pet knows how much they love them because of how serious they took showing affection. Hey, it’s a tough job, but somebody’s gotta cuddle that puppy.

cats

Although, I must say, I am surprised that words of affirmation didn’t seem to make the list. We’ve all seen how a dog’s face absolutely lights up when being told they’re a good boy or girl, right? Cats seem to love it too.

Either way, it’s fun to see how, no matter what kind of creature you’re tending to, we all just wanna make sure our four legged companions have every bit of joy in life that they naturally bestow into ours.

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Here’s How To Pre-Order Britney Spears’ ‘The Woman In Me’ Memoir

Britney Spears has already been reported to make some shocking claims in her upcoming memoir, The Woman In Me. This week alone, TMZ reported that Spears revealed in the book that she had an abortion with Justin Timberlake and that he cheated on her with another celebrity.

Given that there are likely to be more big reveals about Spears’ life in the book, fans and general readers might be wondering how to pre-order it. Here’s what to know.

How to pre-order Britney Spears’ The Woman In Me

Spears’ book is out on October 24. It is currently available to pre-order around the world through a number of vendors, like Amazon, Target, Barnes And Noble, and more. A complete list of options, depending on where you’re located, can be found here.

“Over the past 15 years or even at the start of my career, I sat back while people spoke about me and told my story for me,” Spears told People Magazine in a cover story to promote the book. “After getting out of my conservatorship, I was finally free to tell my story without consequences from the people in charge of my life. It is finally time for me to raise my voice and speak out. And my fans deserve to hear it directly from me.”

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When (And What) Is Godzilla Day 2023?

With the release of Godzilla Minus One fast approaching, Toho International is going big for this year’s Godzilla Day. The gargantuan event commemorates the birthday of the King of the Monsters, and this year, Godzilla turns a whopping 69-years-old.

To celebrate Godzilla Day 2023, Toho International has a full slate of activities lined up for the November 3 event, including the chance to buy tickets for the Monster King’s latest Japanese adventure.

Here’s the official synopsis:

Written and directed by Takashi Yamazaki and featuring music by Naoki Sato, Godzilla Minus One sees a devastated postwar Japan facing a new threat in the form of Godzilla. As Godzilla emerges, it wreaks havoc and additional destruction on the nation, knocking the country into the negative.

In addition to Godzilla Minus One tickets going on sales, Godzilla fans have even more ways to celebrate Godzilla Day. There will be a special one-day screening of Godzilla 2000 in select theaters, Pluto TV will host a Godzilla movie marathon, and Shout! TV will stream an encore presentation of 2022’s Masters of Monsters. Hosted by legendary director John Carpenter, Masters of Monsters will feature four classic Godzilla films including Gojira, Rodan, Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster, and The War of the Gargantuas.

You can watch the trailer for Godzilla Minus One below:

Godzilla Day 2023 kicks off November 3.

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Gwyneth Paltrow Is Suggesting That She ‘Will Literally Disappear From Public Life’ Whenever She Sells Her Goop Business

Gwyneth Paltrow, who recently gave the performance of her life (by not laughing) during that recent ski-collision trial, appears to be completely done with Hollywood. That’s the message coming from her new Bustle interview to promote the new “accessible” (i.e. less expensive) “good. clean. goop” beauty line that will sell at Amazon and Target.

Goop has actually come a long way since launching as a weekly newsletter that saw Gwyneth recommend expensive, “aspirational” things for her followers to buy. She has never pretended (for long) to understand what the wealthy masses go through in order to afford consumer goods, but she must now recognize that a lower price point would be beneficial for both her and goop readers. As well, goop seems to be piloting her empire with plans for an eventual sale. After that, she plans to flee from the public eye. Here’s that exchange with Bustle:

So who’s going to buy Goop and make you hundreds of millions of dollars?

I have no idea. We’re not ready to sell yet. I need a few more years.

Maybe you could make a dramatic exit on your 55th birthday.

I’d be happy with that.

Sail off into the sunset.

I will literally disappear from public life. No one will ever see me again.

You think that’s true?

Yes.

You don’t get any pleasure from having to do that side of it?

No. I don’t.

The struggle is goop-y, as they say. In the interview, Paltrow also claimed that “[m]oney has never been my thing. It’s never been my driver,” but presumably, she cannot be upset to actually have that money. Otherwise, Gwyneth claimed to have lightened up on her militant workout routine, and she claims to simply want to hang out with friends and family, hence the desire to “disappear” from society. Only time will tell if that happens, but who knows, she might actually do that reality-show stint first, and ski with less resulting drama, too.

(Via Bustle)

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A group gave 105 homeless people disposable cameras. These are the photos they took.


A group of 105 homeless people gathered at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London.

Each of them was given a disposable camera and told to take pictures that represent “my London.”

The photos were entered in an annual contest run by London-based nonprofit Cafe Art, which gives homeless artists the chance to have their work displayed around the city and, for some of the photographers who participate in the yearly challenge, in a print calendar.


“Some people have had experience, and others have never picked up a camera before,” said Paul Ryan, co-director of Cafe Art.

The program, Ryan explained, includes mentorship and training from professional volunteers at the Royal Photographic Society, including winners of the contest from previous years, many of whom are ultimately inducted into the society.

contest, London, social circles, job market

The goal of the challenge is to help participants gain the confidence to get back on the job market, search for housing, re-engage with their social circles, or even activate dormant skills.

“I really enjoyed it. And I started to get involved in my art again, which I’d left for years,” a 2015 participant said in a video for the organization’s Kickstarter campaign.

These are 11 of the top vote-getters from this year’s contest:

1. Ella Sullivan — “Heart Bike Rack”

bike rack, photography, hearts, charity

2. Alana Del Valle — “London Bus with Sculpture”

double-decker-bus, sculpture, contest

3. Beatrice — “Out of the Blue”

shadows, hands, artist, art

4. Laz Ozerden — “What Now?”

charity, donations, pan handling

5. Leo Shaul — “The Coffee Roaster”

coffee, roasters, model

6. Christopher McTavish — “St. Paul’s in Reflection”

St. Paulu2019s, historic buildings, government

7. Hugh Gary — “London Calling”

phone booth, red kiosk, iconic

8. Keith Norris — “Watching Mannequin”

mannequin, window display, reflections

9. Siliana — “After the Rain”

tourism, tour boats, bridges, rain

10. Saffron Saidi — “Graffiti Area”

street art, graffiti, Dalmatians

11. Jackie Cook — “Underground Exit”

transportation, walking, stairwell, hide-n-seek

Ryan, who has been developing the program for seven years, said that while there’s no one-size-fits-all solution for individuals who are homeless, for some who are too used to being “knocked back,” the experience of seeing their work on display or in print — and of success — can be invaluable.

“Everyone is helped in a different way, to get up to the next step in whatever way they need to.”


This article originally appeared on 08.17.16

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Nine things new parents think they need and the more practical alternatives.

There’s nothing like preparing for a new baby. The excitement and anticipation take hold and before you know what’s happening, your baby registry is five pages long full of things you’ve probably never heard of. I’ve been there before, and now, four kids later, I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are tons of things you actually don’t need. It’s easy to get carried away when everything is so tiny and cute, especially ’cause marketing around baby stuff is bananas. The following offers some alternative items to the ones you’ll likely only use a limited number of times before practicality takes over.


Many of us have been there, standing in the baby aisle looking like we’re smuggling an oddly shaped beach ball under our now-too-small maternity shirt contemplating between the many styles of pacifiers and different types of bottles. You’d be forgiven for spending an insane amount of money on bottles shaped like a deflated spaceship that guarantee your baby will never burp, when two weeks after they’re born you find out your baby actually prefers the $0.98 ones from Walmart. Figuring out what you really need is tricky enough, so let me help you out. Hold on to your bellies or shiny new babies folks, this list might blow your mind.

1. Put the Pee Pee Teepee down and back away slowly.

Aside from the word “teepee” being highly inappropriate for non-Indigenous people to use, you can go ahead and take this bad boy off your baby registry. If you’re not familiar with a “pee pee teepee,” it’s a cone-shaped item that goes on top of your little guy’s business so he doesn’t accidentally pee in his eyes or on the unsuspecting diaper changer. Here’s the thing, baby wipes or a baby washcloth work just as well. When my boys were little I’d just throw a wipe over their baby business while I changed the diaper, and once the dirty diaper was off, it’s easy to toss the used wipe in before trashing the diaper. Easy peasy and it’s one less thing to put on your list.

2. Diaper Genies are unnecessary and it’s easy to forget they exist.

I had such high hopes for my Diaper Genie as a first-time mom. They’re so cool, you shove a dirty diaper in there and twist. That’s it. It locks in the odor and makes a weird-looking segmented snake of dirty diapers. Alas, when your diaper pail is in one room and you’re changing a diaper on a wiggly baby in another, most times the diaper just winds up in the closest trash can. So just buy some small cheap trash cans to put in different rooms and then empty them at the end of the day. There’s only so much odor a diaper genie can hold and they only take special expensive trash bags. Save your money. Get some small trash cans and those little smell good bags to toss the smelly diapers.

3. You can buy a swaddler but you don’t actually need it.

I know this might be a controversial statement, but honestly those swaddlers are really expensive and babies quickly outgrow them. You can do the perfect swaddle with a receiving blanket for a fraction of the price and just as much energy. You know how babies come all bundled up when the nurse brings them in from the nursery? Yeah, that’s a really good swaddle that will give your snuggle bug the same coziness as an expensive swaddler.

4. You don’t have to be fancy and get a Baby Brezza.

Honestly, I had never heard of a Baby Brezza until I had my youngest, so I’m assuming its a newer invention. They’re certainly cool and also really expensive and unnecessary. These little doodads are like baby Keurigs but for formula. They hold powdered formula and water, you press a button and it supposedly perfectly mixes up a warm bottle of sustenance. The price tag on these things are about the same as a larger much more needed baby item, like a car seat-stroller combo. There have also been some concerns raised by pediatricians due to some bottles not getting enough formula added.

Take the guesswork out of it and just fill the bottles by hand. You can even put water in the bottles in advance and leave them out at room temperature and use a portable formula container to put premeasured scoops in. I know it’s no Baby Brezza, but you’ll be $200 richer and know exactly how much formula is going into your baby’s bottle.

5. Your baby doesn’t need fake grass to dry their bottles on.

Don’t laugh, a fake grass bottle dryer is something that actually once sat on my kitchen counter. That’s about all it did because I dang sure didn’t use it for more than the first week. When you’re sleep deprived, you want the easiest thing available and oftentimes that’s the top rack of the dishwasher or the dish rack that’s already on your countertop. The things we get suckered into buying is laughable sometimes. Besides it being esthetically pleasing, you don’t actually need it and a regular bottle rack, in fact, works better because there are no removable trees holding the nipples.

6. Side eye anyone that says you need embroidered burp cloths.

Don’t fall for it. Yes, purpose-made burp cloths can be super cute but they’re literally used to catch baby puke. These things are too small to cover the area needed to prevent your back and shoulder from becoming a casualty of a little guy eating too fast. Remember those receiving blankets we talked about earlier? Yeah, they are much more absorbent and cover more of your body to spare you having to change clothes. Those flannel blankets are versatile. You can use them for swaddling, to cover a car seat or stroller, for burp cloths or even a clean area to change the baby on. There’s no such thing as too many receiving blankets. I’ll make it easy for you, grab a pack here.

7. Skip the bulb syringe and splurge on the NoseFrida.

The hospital will give you a useless bulb syringe that only the nurses know how to work, because I swear no matter how hard you squeeze the bulb you barely get anything out. Bulb syringes even come with many newborn essential sets. I’m sure they work, but they seem to take way too much effort for the little bit of mucus they pull out. Get the NoseFrida—yes, it’s a little more expensive but it’s worth it, even though it seems gross. I promise the hygiene filter that goes in the tube will spare you from getting baby boogers in your mouth. You can literally use that thing well into the toddler years until your little one learns to blow their nose. Can’t speak highly enough of this thing and here’s a link to it here.

8. Do you really need a Pack ‘n’ Play that turns into a rocket ship?

OK, maybe it doesn’t turn into a rocket ship but some of those things are so outrageous that you might need to be a rocket scientist to put it together. Pack ‘n’ Plays are really convenient and a great investment for new parents, especially if you like to travel or have family out of state. You can use it so your baby can sleep in your bedroom until you’re ready for the switch to sleeping away from your little one. Just try not to get distracted by all the bells and whistles and stick to the basics. A Pack ‘n’ Play with a bassinet is really all you need. It’s much cheaper and you’ll use the bassinet piece much longer than the ones that come with other parts.

9. Expensive teething jewelry is overrated.

Fancy teething jewelry is cute and has become quite popular lately, but babies don’t really need it. They are perfectly happy with the normal water-filled teething rings or rubber ones that can be thrown in any diaper bag. They’re tried and true, plus they’re designed specifically for teething. While the jewelry is marketed for teething babies, doctors have warned that they’re not safe enough to use for that purpose. Besides, having a baby is expensive enough, no need to add to it when you can pick up teething rings at just about any store for a reasonable price.

The idea that everything for babies has to be the most expensive top-of-the-line things is just marketing. When it comes down to it, babies need very basic things: a safe place to sleep, food, diapers and lots of love. Everything else is extra and you can be as extra as you’d like but it should never feel like it’s a necessity. Your baby will love you whether you have the Baby Brezza or mix their bottles by hand, promise.

This article originally appeared on 9.16.22

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Want to be an excellent conversationalist? You should know the 43:57 rule.

When we think about gifted conversationalists, we’re more likely to think of great talkers—those who wow us with their insights, wit, and charm. However, communication experts believe that if you want to make a great impression on someone, knowing how to listen goes a long way.

Those of us who love being verbose may think the world loves us because of how well we can talk. But the person sitting in front of you has a lot to say, and nothing makes them feel better during a conversation than your undivided attention.

As the old saying goes, we never quite remember everything someone has said to us, but we’ll never forget how they made us feel. When you actively listen to your conversation partner, they feel that you value them and are receptive to their needs. It also eases any feelings of conflict or resentment.


After a good conversation, the person you spoke with should think, “Wow, that person really gets me,” instead of, “It was like I didn’t even exist.”

A study from 2016 on sales calls did an excellent job of quantifying the amount we should speak versus listen during a conversation. A marketing director at Gong.io analyzed 25,537 sales calls using artificial intelligence and found that the interactions where the salesperson talked 43% of the time and listened 57% of the time had the highest sales yield.

This finding has come to be known as the 43:57 rule.

Even though the study was conducted on business calls, the reason that it works should apply to social conversations as well. Paying more attention helps a salesperson identify the client’s needs and makes them feel comfortable spending money because they know it’s with someone who understands their interests.

It’s the same as a social situation where the person you speak to wants to know they are valued and you respect what they say.

This is excellent advice, but sometimes it’s hard to listen when you’re in a fun conversation and have a lot to say. Kate Murphy, author of “You’re Not Listening,” says it’s all about staying calm.

“Deep breaths are always good. They’re always good. Because it…calms down that fear response. It helps you get more centered,” Murphy told WBUR. “But also to develop your curiosity. Like I said, make it more important to be curious than to be right. And to go into every conversation with that mindset of how could I be wrong? Instead of, let me prove how I’m right.”

“That’s how you develop creative ideas. It’s how you cooperate. It’s how you find middle ground, or at least a peaceable existence,” Murphy added.

The idea that to be a great conversationalist one should master the art of listening is a bit counterintuitive. But, if you feel that you have a lot to say in conversations and can be interesting to listen to, imagine how great that’ll make others feel when you show that you enjoy listening to them as well. It’s a virtuous cycle where everyone wins.

This article originally appeared on 3.7.23