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Phil Jackson is not the first to compare basketball to jazz, but by 1998, as the Chicago Bulls sailed toward their sixth championship, that team looked closer to a fine-tuned jazz combo than nearly any basketball team to take an NBA court. In the final companion episode of Detail on ESPN+ put out in conjunction with The Last Dance, Jackson shows how this latter era of the Bulls’ dynasty gutted out wins based on a shared tempo and passion rather than athletic excellence.

This is Jackson’s second episode of the companion series. In the first, he outlined the basic tenets of the Triangle offense as Chicago ran it. This time around, Jackson walks through Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals, a game Jackson admits was an unlikely Bulls victory in Salt Lake City, and how Scottie Pippen’s gutsy play and Michael Jordan’s clutch performance took the game home.

It was Toni Kukoc who had the hot hand going into Game 6, so the Bulls ran several simple Triangle sets early to get him started. Kukoc scored 10 easy points in the first half, attacking the mismatch he posed for Karl Malone.

“One of the options in (the Triangle) that’s kind of like jazz, is you can take off on the various themes and take off on your own little music runs if you want to, as long as you know what the melody is,” Jackson says. “The Triangle offense is a little bit like that.”However, with Utah up four going into the half, it was Chicago’s defense that had to lock in down the stretch. Malone was 8-for-11 from the field for 20 points in the first two quarters, prompting a couple fantastic observations from Jackson on the Mailman:

• “Karl has a knee lift that’s threatening. It’s probably taken out a few teeth and a few jaws. … Karl’s probably caused as much stitches as anybody in the NBA.”
• Also, Jackson notes how Malone traveled nearly every time he lifted off for his turnaround jumper from the post. Rather than pivoting to his back foot to create space, he stepped backward — a travel.

It’s clear Jackson respects Malone and John Stockton, but doesn’t seem necessarily to think much of the Jazz offense, which repeatedly uses the same screen and cut combination to free up Malone on the block with guards in motion around him. That made it pretty easy for the Bulls to lock in defensively when needed. There’s a reason the Jazz never took them to a Game 7.

Still, Chicago entered the fourth quarter down five. Jordan’s legs were falling out from beneath him. Chicago was staring down an elimination game in the Finals for the first time ever.

A few things led to Jordan’s legendary shot over Byron Russell that are often forgotten. A Howard Eisley three-pointer got called off because officials said it was let off after the buzzer, but regular game tape proves otherwise. Jackson believes the missed call was a result of bright camera flashes let off by media at every buzzer that blinded those on the court. Not that explains away the Bulls’ six championship, though. Jackson brushes it off: “Well, so be it.”

The next forgotten detail is that the Bulls specifically liked to play defense in front of their bench in the second half, and Jackson says he and Jordan discussed throughout the series the last-second rotation that resulted in Jordan stealing the ball from Malone in the post. They were to keep it as a break-in-case-of-emergency tactic. Defending in front of their bench, the Bulls were able to organize themselves and some sort of mental messaging took place between coach and superstar that triggered the Jordan ball-slap and the worst moment of Malone’s career.

Then, the shot. Says Jackson: “It was as quiet as a church on a Sunday night here in Salt Lake.”

Jordan runs the same spread isolation set that gave him a layup the last time down the floor, uses Russell’s momentum against him, pushes off into a reverse crossover, and sinks one of the defining shots in NBA history.

The final forgotten detail is that the Jazz had absolutely no clue what to run with five seconds remaining in a Finals game. Really, this happened! Everyone knows Jordan smashed the Jazz into a TKO with his shot over Russell, but it’s never mentioned that Utah had plenty of time to parry the blow and take Game 6. Instead, Stockton fires up a long pull-up three with time left on the clock. No chance. Game over. Era over.

“Their last shot is one that kind of surprised us,” Jackson says. “They don’t have enough time to get into what they want to do.”

In the end, this was the difference between Chicago and Utah. The Bulls had Jordan, the NBA’s preeminent soloist and a backing band of excellent role players and a system that held the groove together. The Jazz had one strong melody, a fiercely stubborn conductor in head coach Jerry Sloan, and no creativity in the moments that necessitate force of will and individual greatness. It’s why Chicago went 2-2 in the two championship bouts, and Utah is remembered as one of the greatest squads never to get theirs.

Previously on the Ins and Outs of AEW Dynamite: The Inner Circle put out a hit on Matt Hardy’s favorite sentient drone, Mike Tyson was revealed as a special celebrity guest for Double or Nothing, and Sammy Guevara revealed that he has no neck. Well, he has no neck now.

If you’d like to keep up with this column and its thinly veiled Best and Worst format, you can keep tabs on the Ins and Outs of AEW Dynamite tag page. You can keep track of all things All Elite here.

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And now, the Ins and Outs of All Elite Wrestling Dynamite for May 20, 2020.

In Your House: Floridian Stampede

Let’s start off the column for Double or Nothing’s “go-home” show with the biggest news of the week: The Young Bucks and Hangman Adam Page are back, just in time for Saturday’s “Stadium Stampede” match. It must be nice to have unfettered use of an NFL stadium, huh? It’s at least a good visual for when you need to shit or get off the pot with Blood and Guts but can’t do it any time soon with a plague on.

Last week the Inner Circle assassinated Vanguard-1 with a baseball bat, and it worked so well that this week they use Sammy Guevara’s main event match against Matt Hardy as a distraction to be like, “Hey, what if we do that bat murder to a PERSON?” With Hardy not being an official member of the group, Cody busy doing his Lance Archer thing, and the Bucks and Hangman off either dealing with injury or trying not to get sick, it only made sense to target The Elite’s Kenneth Ellen Omega. But it turns out that the Bucks and Hangman I guess scouted the Inner Circle’s plans and decided to lie in wait in various places around TIAA Bank Field to hatch a surprise attack while Omega got held against the goal posts and shit-kicked. Don’t think about it. The good news is that while we aren’t going to get a proper War Games match seemingly ever again, we confirmed that Jackson and Jackson are gonna dive off an empty stadium full of ledges and surfaces, and that Adam Page has got a hell of a hundred-yard dash:

Hangman came barrelling into the stadium like …

… or, if you’d prefer …

I’m sure somebody’s already put the Chariots of Fire music behind it. A Dynamite with the Bucks and Hangman is better than a Dynamite without, love them or hate them, and if AEW’s truly dedicated to having its promotion be the spiritual successor to World Championship Wrestling, I look forward to those three beating down Omega and Hardy at Double or Nothing and joining the Inner Circle.

(That’s a joke, by the way.)
(WCW really ruined me, you know.)

All In: Horse Vs. Snake

It’s not exactly a duel of DDTs in 1992, but we finally got to see Arn Anderson and Jake Roberts exist in the ring together at the same time. It’s a dream moment, for sure, and it’s all in service of adding more fuel to the fire for Cody Rhodes vs. Lance Archer ahead of Saturday. That rivalry already involves a new arriving star, a tournament for a new championship belt, the violent bloodletting of Cody’s brother, and dramatic vehicle entrances. Might as well let two of the best to ever do it do what they do and create compelling television from office chairs on either side of Tony Schiavone.

It’s honestly a shame that we can’t get these two in the ring against one another, at least not until Mohammad Bin Salman Al Saud gets really into Being The Elite, books Full Gear in Riyadh, and needs a main event. I really hope Jake and Mike Tyson interact at Double or Nothing, though. Jake once more or less no-sold (or at least “pro wrestling” sold) several clean punches to the face from Muhammad Ali to keep his heat because Ali was only there for a night, so I’d love to see Tyson uppercut a 64-year old Jake Roberts flush in the chin only for Jake to calmly stumble backwards and lean against the ropes.

Somewhat In: Force Ten

In other top of the card news, AEW World Champion Jon Moxley wants to get his belt back from Longhorn Steakhouse The Monarch The Exalted One Mr. Brodie Lee, and tries to do so by leveraging the well-being of Brodie’s top henchman, “10.” You can tell he’s the best henchman because he doesn’t wear a shirt. No, I don’t know how they employ Shawn Spears and haven’t had him interact with 10 yet.

Anyway, Moxley defeats 10 in a lightly competitive match that presents Moxley with a “challenge” without it ever really being challenging, and performatively announces that he’s going to break 10’s arm if Mad Men Bray Wyatt doesn’t play ball. Brodie pops in on the video screen all, “I’ve known that guy for like three weeks you proletariat
scumbag, go ahead, break his arm, see if I even care.” Moxley, effectively called on his bluff, goes through with it. And he does it in that funny pro wrestling way where you hit an object with an object and that’s supposed to make it hurt more, like how WWE thinks putting a ladder on somebody’s leg and hitting the ladder with a chair hurts more than just hitting someone in the leg with a chair or ladder.

The match on Saturday should be fun. With Chris Jericho, Jake Hager, and Brodie Lee taken care of, which former WWE star will become number one contender next? Maybe they can get Bad News Barrett on loan from the NWA?

All In, And Then Oh My God All Out: Orange Cassidy Vs. Rey Fénix

Orange Cassidy versus Rey Fénix was absolutely my match of the night. I love both guys, am keenly aware of Orange’s low key wrestling excellence, and have missed Fénix looking at a basic in-ring scenario and thinking, “how can I make this as confusing and dangerous as possible?” It’s a great combination: a guy who will surprise you with his wrestling acumen against a guy who will surprise you by wrestling like he wrestles and living.

It’s all well and good until the ending, which is a pier-six brawl and at least 75% of a donnybrook involving the competitors in Saturday’s “casino” ladder match. On paper, it’s an excuse for a bunch of cool high flyers to hit high-flying moves. In practice, it’s kind of a damn car wreck. There’s a whole pod of people at ringside brawling, and they can’t seem to catch ANYBODY. The worst is Fénix, possibly because of the high degree of difficulty. Who needs hips and a tailbone, anyway?

If that’s not bad enough, Colt Cabana tries to follow it with an Asai moonsault of his own and ALSO gets more ground than bodies. Then Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends to the Ant Hill from Chikara*, and Orange almost overshoots the entire group. If not for Kip Sabian’s shoulder he probably would’ve smashed into the ground, too. It’s so bad the title of the video is, “ORANGE CASSIDY VS FENIX AND THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR.”

* (also, Chuck Taylor participating in an Ant Hill just seems wrong)

Note: I don’t think it’ll happen at Double or Nothing or anything, but I sure hope AEW jumps on Drew Gulak’s free agency and gets the Gentleman’s Club back together. Not that I want every former WWE guy to show up in AEW, but we need to know what Orange thinks about the most recent several Fast & Furious movies.

All Out: Dental? Damn.

Continuing the theme of accidental injuries, Nyla Rose teams up with Dr. Britt Baker DMD to take on Kris Statlander and apparently eternal number one contender Hikaru Shida in a tag team match. In case you missed it, Statlander and Shida decided to do a blind, double-team Death Valley Driver to Rose ONTO Britt Baker in the corner with their backs together so they can’t communicate or see what the other person’s doing, and … it didn’t go well.

That’s 200 pounds of Nyla Rose falling sideways and getting slammed onto Baker’s leg (and kicking her in the face, for good measure). She’s able to get out of there pretty quickly and sits out the remainder of the match, but the damage is done. The early reports are a “pretty serious knee injury,” which is heartbreaking, especially considering what an MVP Britt’s been to the show during quarantine. If she ends up missing any time, I hope they let her keep doing character vignettes, if only for a scene where a dentist mandible-splains her own knee injury to an orthopedic surgeon because she’s also a doctor, thank you very much.

Also On This Episode

MJF defeats Marko Stunt, who manages to get through an entire episode of Dynamite without being thrown to Hell by a giant. He does get punched in the face with a diamond ring, however, and has to be bailed out by a dinosaur. Marko’s so small he makes MJF look like Wardlow, and makes Wardlow look like Lance Archer. Note: MJF is billed at 6-feet tall and Wardlow’s billed at 6-2, making them a living version of the “6-foot versus 5-foot-11” meme.

MJF will have to face Jungle Boy, literally a friend to big and small, at Double or Nothing. What happens first: Marko Stunt scoring an upset over someone three times his size, or Jim Ross getting through an entire Jungle Boy appearance without calling him “Jungle Jack Perry?” He’s going to get that name changed or he’s gonna die trying. Boomer Jack Sooner.

Darby Allin is still expressing himself through student film. My favorite AEW character is the nihilistic skateboard kid who can only communicate via Mirror Father Mirror.

Randy News Network senior numerology correspondent Shawn Spears sends in a video to announce that Dustin Rhodes has retired, and that he’s challenging him for Saturday, which is how retirement works. He also makes fun of Dustin’s past drug addiction, which is pretty out of nowhere. Who let Shawn Spears have his own news network? Is Tully Blanchard the only one who watches it? I’m not even sure Tully’s watching it at this point.

PAC is back, thank God, and sends in a video promo from Johnny Gargano and Candice LeRae’s dining room. I’m hype for him to show up in the Casino ladder match unannounced, take his Death Triangle mate’s spot due to a particularly nasty case of broken lower half, and win the next shot at the AEW Championship. “PAC” is the answer to the earlier question. It’s also the BEST answer!

All In: Top 10 Comments Of The Week

The Real Birdman

“Yayyy!” – Dark Order Member 11

AddMayne

United States Presidential Debate (2020)

BigD_TVF

Being able to kip up with your hands in your pockets just ain’t right.

Some of us can’t even sit up from the floor without rolling over and grabbing onto at least 2 sturdy pieces of furniture.

mikeybot

TIL – In AEW if you fail your sneak attack roll, you lose you entrance music

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer

MJF is the best 1980s heel remastered for 2020.

Clay Quartermain

Spears does have that basic cable blandness down pat

Pdragon619

I’m the same age as Sammy Guevara, I like to believe that we both helped contribute to making this one of the greatest generations of wrestling ever. Him with his infinite potential, and myself with my infinite nitpicking pushing these athletes to be even better.

Endy_Mion

Dark Order’s human furniture store gonna get a stimulus check anytime soon? Or is our government truly that out of touch with what the people need as essentials?

SexCauldron

Seeing the Butcher and Blade in street clothes is like seeing a teacher outside of school

Mr. Bliss

I do need a commercial from the Dark Order letting us know they think essential workers are heroes.

That does it for this week’s column. Thanks for reading about Dynamite! Leave us a comment below, give the column a share on social media, and make sure you’re here this weekend for Double or Nothing, featuring:

• action-adventure husband Jon Moxley taking down an incel cult
• Bloodless and Gutsless
• a TNT Championship Tournament finals in which everybody dies
• Hikaru Shida hopefully doing something with her four months of number one contendership
• a ladder match in which nobody gets caught, ever

… and so much more. See you then!

Since he started making music, Kevin Parker has honed his sound with Tame Impala. The singer started as a psych-rock project with his debut album Innerspeaker and has since undergone a poptimisiom pivot complete with stadium-ready production on his most recent release, The Slow Rush. With a newfound perspective, Parker reflects on his debut release on the 10-year anniversary of Innerspeaker and hints at what’s to come.

Getting personal in a post on Instagram, Parker wrote that his album’s anniversary made him emotional:

“This version of the cover was 1 version out from the final, but i found it the other day for the first time since 2010 and it makes me very emotional to just look at because it reminds me of what I was going through about a week out from finishing and signing off on the whole album, which scared the shit out of me and at the time seemed like an insurmountable task. Little did I know that was the easiest it was ever going to get.”

Along with thanking fans for their continued support, Parker hinted that he has something exciting in the works, writing: “Announcement of something very special coming v soon.”

Just ahead of Parker’s recent release, the musician spoke with Uproxx and reflected on each of his projects. Detailing Innerspeaker, Parker said he feels disconnected from the album in some ways: “For what that album means to my fans, it belongs more to them than it does to me. I almost don’t feel like it’s me that made that. It feels like someone else.” Parker continued by saying he wasn’t as confident about his music back then: “I was a shy person. I was shy personally and musically. The fact that everyone thought it was a band is an example of how shy I was musically. I didn’t even want to tell people that I made the whole thing by myself.”

Read Parker’s full statement above.

The Slow Rush is out now via Modular. Get it here.

The floodgates are open for pro athletes seeking out ways to get back to training, and as the NBA arranges initial plans to finish out the 2019-20 season, perhaps no one is more determined to get back on the court than LeBron James.

The Lakers star and MVP candidate has been particularly vocal about his desire to play out the season, and was even part of a call with other superstars to present a united front in support of this outcome last week. Now, James is reportedly arranging workouts with his Lakers teammates in a private gym somewhere in southern California to get ready for the season, according to Shams Charania of Stadium and The Athletic.

This is the type of situation the NBA was trying to avoid. Charania adds that James’ private workouts are operating under the same guidelines as official NBA workouts across the country, but suffice to say it’s hard to imagine that James hired a Chief Hygiene Officer. Charania also reports that all players who are joining James for workouts are being tested before joining him on the court. Testing for COVID-19 is widespread in California, where local officials have said anyone who wants a test can get one, so the simple act of getting tested before playing basketball is nothing major. But the NBA has been careful not to appear to be operating on a playing field above the rest of the public.

The news is especially peculiar considering the Lakers opened their El Segundo practice facility on Monday in coordination with local officials. Why James is hosting separate workouts that use more resources and are not happening within the regulations the NBA put out is a symbol of James’ power in the league, but also the challenges of governing a large body of wealthy athletes spread out over the country at this time.

The NBA will reportedly begin working with teams in early June to bring players back to their home markets, effectively cutting out odd arrangements like the one James has created. But for now, the King is hungry for his fourth ring, and is readying himself individually for when the time comes to compete again.

Martin Scorsese’s The Irishman was nominated for 10 Oscars, including Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Supporting Actor for both Al Pacino and Joe Pesci. Unfortunately, the Academy was not a friend of Hoffa, and the film failed to win a single trophy. Still! Ten Oscar nominations is pretty good — that’s [checks notes] 10 more than Grandma’s Boy was nominated for (it was robbed). Netflix hopes to have better success with its next prestige project from an all-time acclaimed director: Spike Lee’s Da 5 Bloods.

Both films — one about a truck driver who becomes a hitman, the other about four African American veterans returning to Vietnam (guess which one is which!) — are reliant on flashbacks, but with a key difference. “I was not getting $100 million to de-age our guys,” Lee told the New York Times, adding, “I think we were able to turn a negative into a positive.”

Notably, the actors, all over 50, play themselves in the flashback sequences, without any de-aging makeup or digital effects. According to notes about the film sent to the press, this was meant to illustrate the bloods’ “living memories,” how “current dilemmas and even ailments color recollections of their former selves.” (Via)

There better be at least one scene of Isiah Whitlock Jr. eating ice cream, though. Da 5 Bloods, which also stars Chadwick Boseman, Delroy Lindo, Clarke Peters, Norm Lewis, Jonathan Majors, and Paul Walter Hauser, premieres on Netflix on June 12.

Last night’s episode of AEW Dynamite was one of the more exciting shows in the no-crowd pandemic era of wrestling, but unfortunately some of that excitement may have come at the expense of some of the performers’ bodies. It seemed pretty clear to anyone watching closely that three wrestlers got hurt over the course of the show, and today we can offer a few more details about their situations.

Fenix dove to the outside after his match with Orange Cassidy, but none of the wrestlers brawling out there managed to really catch his weight, and he was seen falling directly to the ground, where a referee quickly checked up on him. According to Bryan Alvarez at the Wrestling Observer, Fenix is just “banged up” and still expected to compete in the Ladder Match at Double or Nothing on Saturday.

Britt Baker was down in the corner in her tag match, when her opponents Kris Statlander and Hikaru Shida dropped her partner Nyla Rose onto Baker’s bent knee. Afterward she was seen clutching it and being attended by an official at ringside. Currently she’s still scheduled to wrestle Statlander on Saturday, but the Observer notes that she still has to be medically evaluated today, and it looks like it might be “a pretty serious knee injury.”

In the final segment of the show, Matt Jackson appeared to hurt his ribs jumping off of a wall in the football stadium onto the Inner Circle. He took more than one shot to the ribs after that, and could be seen looking pained as the show ended. He’s supposed to be in the Stadium Stampede match at Saturday’s event, but he’ll also be evaluated by a doctor today.

Hopefully everybody will be able to work on Saturday, but we’ll know for sure soon enough.

It’s been five years since Ellie Goulding released her third studio record Delirium, and this February marked the 10-year anniversary of her break-out debut Lights. While Goulding has put out a few tracks in the years since her last release, her new single “Power” marks the UK singer’s triumphant return.

For the track’s accompanying visual, Goulding sought directorial help via FaceTime from creative duo Imogen Snell and Riccardo Castan, who has also worked with the likes of Madonna and The xx. Shot in isolation, the “Power” visual is Goulding at her most vulnerable yet, featuring montages of blurred selfie videos and an intimate peek into her home.

While Goulding has yet to reveal concrete details about her upcoming release, the singer offers a glimpse into her forthcoming full-length effort with the single. “Power” previews her fourth album through bright tones and her far-reaching, saccharine vocals which can be distinctly heard on her recent Blackbear collaboration “Worry About Me.”

In a statement alongside the single, Goulding said she wrote the single as a reflection on dynamics she’s experienced in modern relationships: “I wanted to release this song off my upcoming album as a preview into the world my new album is in! ‘Power’ is about relationships in the 21st century, how they can now be dictated by social media, superficiality and material things. Dating can sometimes start out with lies or embellishments. The girl in the song is disillusioned by love and the cruel, good looking, self-obsessed people she keeps ending up with.”

Watch the “Power” video above.

The Last Dance brought back a tremendous amount of 90’s nostalgia, as basketball fans were transported back to the era when Michael Jordan reigned over the league. It rekindled debates and discussions about Isiah Thomas being left off the Dream Team, Jordan’s first and second retirements, and a whole host of “what ifs.”

It also brought some of the central figures of the 90’s NBA back into focus, such as Ahmad Rashad, who was a regular in the documentary as someone that saw Jordan’s career through the most unique of lenses: a reporter for NBC but also as one of Jordan’s closest friends. Rashad has a perspective on Jordan’s career that’s all his own, and was able to offer some additional commentary on social media to add to the stories being told in The Last Dance.

This past Monday, Rashad hosted a livestream of Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals in a partnership with Gatorade, with guests Sue Bird, Zach LaVine, James Wiseman, and Ron Harper. Following that, Rashad spoke with DIME over the phone on behalf of Gatorade about what it was like reliving that game again, what it’s been like watching The Last Dance with Jordan each week, his role in Jordan’s pregame ritual, the Inside Stuff 90’s reunion, Inside Stuff‘s legacy, and what it was like being by Jordan’s side as he launched into superstardom.

I think The Last Dance was at its best when it was either showing the behind the scenes footage or giving us a glimpse into Michael Jordan the human, like the section in the finale on Gus Lett. As someone that knows that side of Mike, was that something you were glad the public got to see?

Yes. I thought one of the major things of all of that is you got to see Michael Jordan as a human being. You know, he’s a regular human being that deals with all the things us regular people deal with, but it was a great chance to see him outside of dunking and shooting and all those kinds of things, you really got to see it. It was like being a fly on the wall, and I think that was the greatest thing. Because everybody that had seen him play during that time, you never got to see that. You never knew that side of him, the human being side, and I thought that this was an excellent time for people to just see who was Michael Jordan.

What was watching this like for you as someone who saw a lot of those moments and more, getting to relive it again 20-plus years later?

Well, you know, we watch it together. So we would sit down and we would laugh at stuff. We would reminisce, it was almost like a high school reunion. We’d talk about certain things, we would watch a game and we’d talk about a certain player. “Remember that guy, he could do this and this?” “Aw yeah, I remember that shot.” “Hey remember that time we were almost late and we had to…”

You know, it was one of those kinds of things of looking back and kind of realizing all of it, and then it was all the action was around a game. So then watching the game and remembering all the things that happened over the course of the game. It was a lot of fun for us, and it was something we did every Sunday for the entire time. So it was a lot of laughing and a lot of joking around. It was one of those kinds of things, us reminding each other of stuff. So it was pretty cool.

You’ve taken to social media some to fill in gaps and elaborate on some stories told in the doc. How much fun have you had reflecting on all of this and having a chance to tell some of these stories to a generation that doesn’t know them?

You know, the most fun I had was when Gatorade and NBA got together to provide a way for fans to see this game all over again, and I got the chance to do it with Sue Bird and Zach LaVine and James Wiseman and Ron Harper. So, to get together with them and do it, I thought was one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen, because people could watch the game that maybe they’ve never seen it, but they got insight from us over the course of that game — almost like we were sitting in your living room and watching it with you, and that became a lot of fun. Where I could go to Harp and say, “Harp remember this?” Or I could go to Sue and say, “What would you have done in this situation?” Or James as a young man, “Who impresses you most?”

Just those things that, when you sit down and watch a game you’re never going to be able to have us in your living room, up to that point, but because of Gatorade, they put us all together and we had a chance to react to things going on. I thought that enhanced the viewership, it enhanced your knowledge of what’s going on, and hopefully it entertains you in a way that it would never happen again. It was a great idea, I mean, they came up with just a big, great idea just to do this and I just have never seen it before, but I certainly had fun.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that, because you had a wide age range. You have Zach LaVine who probably was real young when that happened, James Wiseman wasn’t even born yet. You have Sue Bird who was definitely watching as a teenager, and you have Ron Harper who was actually on the floor. How interesting was it to see them watch it and give their insight from all different perspectives?

Well it was fun, and it was fun to see some of the reaction that they had. James Wiseman is probably a lot older in his reality than his age, because he said some things that were pretty pertinent from what he was taking away from the game. The other stuff, like you just said, Sue Bird is one of the greatest players who ever played and then you had Ron Harper who was actually in the game. So I would say stuff to Harp because I remember talking to Harp during that time. We would talk during that entire time, so it was almost sort of a lead through. I would lead them through what was going to happen, and what did happen and Harp could say why it happened, and Sue could say what she would do in those situations, and James could say who impressed him most, and the same thing with Zach. I think it was a great group of people and it covered every aspect of that great game from every viewpoint.

We saw some a few times you shared some pregame moments with Mike, in the car on the way to, I believe, Game 2 of the Nets series and in the back of the locker room talking to him before Game 7 of the conference finals against the Pacers. What was it like being there and seeing his process of getting ready for big games and what was he like in those moments?

He was very businesslike, to a point. Because we had … there was a thing we would always do. I would get to the arena early and find a room, and then Michael and Phil Jackson would come to that room, and we would sort of be hiding out under the bleachers somewhere in this room in every arena that they played in. That was my job, to find a room we could be in. And we would talk about everything but basketball. We’d be joking, talking telling stories, just really having a great time, and then when we left there it was just a feel that now was time to get serious. So just that walk to the locker room, that whole jovial thing went away and it was serious. And I think any time you saw that I was in the locker room was usually after we went to that room where we laughed a lot, because it would’ve been very little laughing at that point you saw. There was a game to be played and it got a little bit serious at that point.

I don’t even know, even when I looked at that I was kept thinking, “How did I get in there?” You know? They don’t let anyone in that room, but I remember walking through the locker room all the time. Nobody ever said anything, and I look at it like, they don’t let press people go back in the training room, but that was like my spot. It was just a whole different thing. I felt like I knew all the guys on the team, so no one was ever surprised by it. It was just … and having been a professional athlete, I know what it’s about when you’re getting ready to go to battle. I know what it’s like. So the trick is to not get in the way. You can’t get in the way, they’re going to where they’re going just don’t get in the way.

You’ve told a few stories recently about other folks in the media being upset over that relationship you had. I saw the Jim Gray story you told and then talking about that ’93 sunglasses interview and people thinking you shouldn’t have been the one to do it.

[laughs] Yeah…

How did you navigate that and just learn to deal with that part of it, where some of your peers in the media were jealous or upset you were able to do some of those things that aren’t offered to most?

Well, I didn’t pay any attention to it. I was just doing what I do. I can’t make any excuse for it, I mean, it’s not my fault that the player they all want to cover is one of my best friends. That’s fortunate for me, because I had that job and I had that access. But I had that same sort of access with Phil Jackson. It’s like when Phil told Jim Gray that, “Ahmad’s family, you’re media, so get the hell out.” I think that pretty much answered it. Like, no word was said after that and we kept on doing what we were doing.

It’s hard to fathom exactly how popular and how famous Michael was. The doc touched on the Be Like Mike campaign, which Gatorade recently rebooted, but what is it about Jordan that you think made fans connect with him in the way they did that I don’t know if I’ve ever seen it like that with any other athlete?

Well, I had never seen it with any other athlete, either, but you almost have to take it to another level. It’s like a great — it’s like the Rolling Stones or somebody. They put on great concert after great concert after great concert, well that’s the way Michael played. He was great, great, great, greater, greater, greatest. Every night. It wasn’t one of those things where, I don’t think you’ll hear the story very often that they went to watch the Bulls play and Michael scored eight points.

If you went to see them play, he took it upon himself, because he told me one time, “You know what drives me? There’s somebody in those stands that’s never seen me play before. I don’t care where the game is, I don’t care where we play. There’s somebody in the stands that’s never seen me play.” And he felt like he owed them to show them who he was. And that was kind of cool, and I’m sure you have entertainers that feel that way too. Especially great entertainers where every show is a great show. And Michael was a great entertainer and every game was a great game.

The last thing on that. The other thing that I thought was, Chicago was the perfect town to have Michael Jordan. It’s one of the great sports towns in the country, if not the greatest. And it was just perfect. The Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan fit like a glove.

Absolutely. You just had the Inside Stuff 90’s reunion. How much fun was it having all those guys together, swapping stories and catching up? I mean, I can’t imagine there’s been a time where all 20, 25 of y’all have been able to do something like that.

[Laughs] That was so much fun. I felt so good that these guys did it for me, and I didn’t even have to ask twice, just once and they all showed up. It was so much fun. It was like having a whole group of guys over to my house, and we all thought you guys all come over, have a couple beers, talk about the old days and kick it back and forth. Well, good luck doing that, but once we had that there, that’s exactly what it turned into. There was more stories and guys cracking on each other and they hadn’t seen each other in a long time, either. It’s like, that might’ve been the first time — I talked to David Robinson and he said, “I hadn’t seen any of those guys in 15 years.”

So it was fun, that was another sort of like high school reunion. And I had stories of all of ’em, Karl Malone, John Stockton, all these guys there were more and more stories, and then once we just got started we just rolled with it and it was just a lot of fun. I think that’s worth doing again.

Yeah, it was a blast to watch. It kind of felt like we were watching a bunch of old friends catching up. And I think this was always kind of the beauty of Inside Stuff, and this was something I wanted to ask. It was never just, OK we’re going to do this formal, sit down interview. It always felt like those guys were so comfortable, and I know it’s something that’s influenced me when I have the opportunity if I have a chance to do something that’s not just sit down across from a player. Is that something you as a former athlete knew was a good formula to follow, and was it always the plan of, if we can get them out of the media room and into their element they’re going to be more open and more willing to show their personality?

Well it was my plan when I was executive producer of Inside Stuff was that every single interview I did, or we did, was not just a set interview, and it was a conversation where everyone can become comfortable and say whatever you want. It wasn’t just a flat out interview, it was a conversation so you would actually see what these guys are all about. You would learn so much more about who you’re interviewing by having a conversation as opposed to a quiz, and to show them doing things and being normal. What’s their normal side? What’s the side people can relate to? Because you can’t relate to them playing basketball, they can do that better than anybody you’ve ever seen. But you can relate to them going to the store. Like, who goes to the store? You ever been to the mall? You ever change a tire? So, stuff we all do, and it was fun having those guys deal with that. And it created an atmosphere of everybody being comfortable. It wasn’t just them being comfortable, but me being comfortable and also the viewers being comfortable.

And like you said, with all of those guys being willing to hop on that call kind of shows how important Inside Stuff was to that era and the growth of the NBA’s popularity. How proud are you of the legacy of the show and what y’all were able to do over 15 years?

It is something I’m very proud of. One of the greatest achievements of my life was to executive produce and managing edit that show. That was such a strong show and we were the first of that genre, and nobody could do anything like it. It was the only show like that, and we really hit a home run. We also were lucky that we’re on the cusp of the NBA going global, and Inside Stuff was on in, like, 200 countries, 180 countries, something like that. What helped also was it was in Michael’s era where Michael was blowing up all over the world. So, we were almost on that sort of sleigh and he was taking us a long, and the whole league, they had so many stars at that time and the music thing and the social dressing, and the NBA was on fire. And we were able to capture that.

I also remember we used to do a stay in school special every year during the All-Star, and we’d have everyone from Will Smith to everybody there to co-host the thing, and do all these things for the kids. Once we got their attention about basketball we could slip in some educational things once you get the attention. Everybody sort of looked forward to it. So it caught on every single element of that era. We were right at the top and we were riding the crest of that, and did it in such a great way that I think people felt — you know television is different. When you’re on television you’re coming into people’s homes. It’s different than going to the movies. When you go to the movies, there’s a distance between you, but when you come on every Saturday to somebody’s home, you become a part of their home. A day doesn’t go by for me, even now, that somebody doesn’t say, “I watched that show every Saturday.” That happens every day, so it just makes me feel good that it was really something that was done one time, it’s never really been done again, and it was done really well, too.

You mention this was when Michael and the league was going global, and you were there for some of those trips around the world — the trip to Paris in 1997, and then of course the Dream Team in 1992. What was it like seeing that in person and seeing the global explosion when you were with the Dream Team or with Michael overseas and just seeing him become this global superstar?

It was like Elvis [laughs]. But nobody remembers Elvis either, he’s too old, but it was overwhelming. Yeah, I remember being in Paris and we were going to get some cigars from a cigar shop, and we get in a van and there must’ve been four or five cop cars in front and behind, and by the time we got to the store there were people lined up for blocks just to get a glimpse of him coming out of the truck. It was just like that, and when the game came in they got a chance to see Michael Jordan. It’s like the whole world knew about him, but now you got a chance to see him in person and the excitement was over the top.

And then the Dream Team, it wasn’t only Michael, it was all those other guys, too. I mean, it was the Dream Team, led by Michael, but also the group that was with him were all great players too. It was just fascinating. Every time they’d go out and beat teams by 20, 30 points and, you know, everybody lived up to the billing. Sometimes in entertainment it’s hard to live up to the billing, where you get a billing that’s so big and you wait for it and then people get a little let down. Well this was past great, they really shattered whatever you were thinking, they went way over the top of that.

And even the guys on the opposing teams would lose by 30 and then go get autographs.

[Laughs] Yes, I remember that! I remember when guys would do that, the end of the game they didn’t care if they lost by 50 they just wanted an autograph and a picture.

I mean, I can’t blame them.

The thought of them winning was probably not a thought.

To close, and I know this is probably an impossible question, but do you have a favorite Michael Jordan story or just a story that really encapsulates who he is?

You know what, it’s so many little ones that show … I mean he was really committed. I remember when he came back to New York [in his last game at the Garden in 1998] and he had on some old shoes that he wore years ago or something, and they were too small. At halftime, I had to interview him and his feet hurt so bad they were bleeding, they had swole up in his shoes so he couldn’t take them off. I said, “Why don’t you just take them off and put on another pair?” And he said, “I can’t take them off, I won’t be able to get my feet back in a shoe.” So he played the whole second half with his toes bleeding and every time he stopped he said it was like someone sticking knives in his toes, but it didn’t stop him. It didn’t stop him from continuing on out and playing. The guy was just committed, really committed.

But I think the one thing people need to understand, the attitude you saw him towards his teammates and trying to get everybody fired up and committed to playing, it’s not unlike — you think Larry Bird wasn’t like that? You think Magic Johnson wasn’t like that? Those guys were all like that. Those were guys that wanted to put their foot on your throat. They got everything they could get out of their teammates. Everything they could get out of their teammates. This was just the first time you saw inside a locker room, but it’s not the only time you see great players lead like that. You lead by performance and bringing guys along. I think that was something that you never would’ve seen had you not seen this Last Dance.

Obsessed’s Britt Ellis and Taylour Chanel are back to talk about the one thing we’re all doing right now — binge-watching TV.

In the above video, Ellis and Chanel break down their affection for Dead To Me and Insecure before deep-diving into Amazon’s Greg Daniel created sci-fi comedy, Upload. This with the help of series star Andy Allo, who stops by to discuss some of her favorite parts from season one while offering some insight into the show’s brewing romance and glimpse at the future.

For Dead To Me, it’s the addictive cliffhangers and snackable binge-watching quality that has the Obsessed team hooked. That and Britt’s committed stan-dom of star Christina Applegate who, along with Linda Cardellini, powers the show as it focuses on the messiness of female friendships, the power of grief, and the importance of wine. Seriously, we cannot overstate how big of a role wine has on this show.

As for the fourth season of Insecure, even though Issa and Molly are on the outs, the ladies are loving the return of fan-favorite character Lawrence, Issa’s ex. The door might be open for a rekindling of their romance. At the very least, there’s a soft breeze, and with a fifth season already greenlit by HBO, both Ellis and Chanel think now’s the time for audiences to catch on to how damn good this comedy series really is.

Check out the video above for a deeper dive into the binge-worthy shows we’re obsessed with and our convo with Andy Allo.

Brooklyn native Joey Badass has been quiet on the music tip for a minute, but that hasn’t stopped him from showing up where it matters most. Complex reports that Joey made a sizable donation to COVID-19 relief for New York City’s students, pairing with Fund For Public Schools to contribute $25,000 toward the city’s students — specifically, its homeless ones.

According to the report, there are more than 100,000 homeless students every year, with around 15,000 students living in shelters on any given night. This vulnerable population faces extra risk during the ongoing coronavirus pandemic, which also affects their learning and ability to complete courses. To that end, Joey’s donation will help with basic needs so students can focus on schoolwork, which will help prepare them for life after the coronavirus crisis has cleared.

In a statement, Joey said, “Now this COVID-19 crisis has been tough on a lot of us, but I can only imagine how hard it is on the homeless students. In the New York City public school system, there are about 1.1 million students currently enrolled. Over 100,000 of them are actually homeless. Now that’s about 1 in 10, and 85 percent of those kids are Hispanic or black. And that’s why I’m partnering up The Fund for Schools and the Department of Education to help them stay on track. Please join me in our efforts to support our most vulnerable students.”

You can watch Joey’s announcement video above and donate to the Fund For Public Schools here.